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DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup

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Offline Phil

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DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« on: June 16, 2014, 10:31:26 AM »
Hi, I thought I'd share some information and a particular setup for the G25 Logitech wheel that I've been working on which I don't think many people have bothered to really nail down. By all means use any particular setup you're comfortable using but I think this is worth the 5 minutes investigation.

As many here know hardware clipping is terrible and extremely hard to setup without reducing other effects. I've changed to non vsync and run around 200-250 frames, so keep that in mind because frames and clipping go hand in hand. Gain is both a friend and an enemy in this case but I've created the "perfect" FFB for the DTM with zero clipping but maximum FFB.

My setup is for the BMW E30 DTM car.

If you check out the AC forums and the Logitech setup wheel you will notice the devs now recommend a new config and that got me thinking about the changes and I think I found the "perfect" setup. Please don't judge the setup by simply looking at it, it does appear wrong but it really isn't. This profile allows you to feel your wheels skip hop and bounce, it's more realistic and the wheel to me feels like it's actually attached to something.

Give it a go in the BMW E30 DTM on silverstone-international, it feels amazing.

In Logitech global device settings use the following config:

Overall Effects: 100
Spring Effects: 100
Damper Effect: 100

Don't tick the tick box, "enable centering spring"
Centering Spring Strength: 0

Degrees of rotation: 900

Make sure to create a specific AC profile and copy the same global settings into "Specific Game Settings"

In-game AC settings

Gain: 72%
Filter 5%
Damping 3%

Kerb 100% - 150%  (adjust to preference, I like 100)
Road Effects 100 - 150% (adjust to preference)
Slip Effects 100 - 150% (adjust to preference)

Steering Settings

Gamma: 1.00
Filter: 0 - 0.15 (adjust to reduce dead zone)
Speed Sensitivity: 0

Brake gamma 1.0  (If you have a load cell use 1.0, recommended by devs)

Let me know what you think   ;)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 10:37:43 AM by Phil »

Offline Dick Forrest

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2014, 12:10:12 PM »
Thanks Phil!
  I will try this when I get home (If I have a chance to practice tonight)
I am very happy with my wheel set up now. But I don't really know what's good and what's better.

Being a total hack I'm sure I won't notice any change. But I can add this to the list of "blame the equipment" excuses.   :D

Offline marty

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2014, 01:33:09 PM »
Thanks Phil a little different to my setup but I will give it a try and let you know how I find it.

Clipping actually isnt related to FFB its purely a max force the wheel can give and so you dont want the game to give it max force before it actually gets to max load in a corner. Otherwise evreything beyond that will just be max force and no progressive feel in the FFB. If you have the gain up too high then your just amplifying the effect at the low end but killing it somewhere before the max, the higher the gain the more on off type FFB you will get with less progressive feel all the way to max load.

Here is a very good read on FFB clipping by Niels http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/like-your-ffb-strong-think-again.30763/

So clipping point may vary between cars setups and even drivers who get more load while cornering, I prefer just to keep mine a little lower so it wont clip in any car but still gets close to peak on high load corners. This for me is at 60% and it feels plenty strong enough giving good feel but I will try yours as is to do a direct comparison. Maybe I can get the DTM into the 8's  ;)

Also in Logitech profiler I keep my gain at 101% as supposedly this helps minimize FFB slack at center, I cant confirm if it does or doesnt but it feels good to me.  :) I normally keep the other 2 at zero in the profiler but will be interested to see how it effects things trying your settings.

Higher FPS will improve input lag so its critical for control but not in terms of FFB clipping but to reduce the lag between when something happens and its displayed on screen. Theoretically even on 60hz screen higher FPS will reduce lag, because its not how many frames you see but how soon after they are rendered are they displayed.

As an example 60fps capped and v-sync adds 1 frame delay due to v-sync plus it only renders one frame then waits til after the screen refresh to render the next. If the system was capable of rendering 180fps then this frame would be rendered in the first 1/3 of the next frame adding an extra 2/3 of a frame delay. If it was to be uncapped then render 180fps at 60hz the first 2 frames are basically wasted but the frame displayed is the last one rendered closer to the next screen refresh so this should be in the last 1/3 of the frame time.

But if its rendering at 60fps capped it could be rendered at any point in the frame just having a higher fps will make it display a frame on screen much closer to the refresh. On top of this delay there is also how long the screen takes to display an image from when it receives it and displays it and this is not a figure given by most monitor manufacturers but can be found for many monitors here. http://www.displaylag.com/

So input lag is the monitors display lag plus lag between render and display, Tv's tend to have much higher display lag 60ms+ sometimes where good gaming monitors can be around 9-10ms.

60fps is 33.3ms so if you add one frame for v-sync then your monitors input lag you can quite likely already be close to 2 frames behind then add the render to display sync lag and you can easily see how simply turning off v-sync will nearly halve the input lag, then higher fps will just help that little bit more. Even a 120hz monitor doesnt necessarily have less display lag then a 60hz one it will simply show more frames so motion will look smoother but may still be further behind when things were actually rendered. Generally though high refresh monitors are gaming monitors and so display lag is minimized to avoid this along with showing more frames. Also showing twice as many frames will reduce input lag if the display lag is the same between it and a 60hz screen because it can render a new frame at 16.7ms and even v-sync adding one frame delay wont be as bad on a faster screen.

Offline marty

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2014, 02:14:03 PM »
I just gave it a go, doesnt fell too bad but quite shakey and rattley with the effects at 100%. I tried the recommended devs settings and this got rid of the excessive shaking and no clipping even at 87%.

http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/logitech-wheels-official-thread.3295/

I think I will play around with it a bit and go somewhere closer to the devs but probably add a little more on some effects.

Offline Phil

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2014, 02:54:44 PM »
One thing to point out anything under 100% reduces the feeling you "should" be feeling, that's how I interrupt the settings.

I've often heard people say on Nords the first carousel, (i hope i have the right section name) should be super bumpy on the inside line, at 100% on each effect this was the first time this section felt like many had described, using the devs 35/25/5 seemed weak in that section.


Edit: I have a feeling that each car will require a particular setup with regards to FFB setup.    :o

« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 03:06:11 PM by Phil »

Offline marty

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2014, 03:07:27 PM »
Also trying these settings I needed to set profiler at 100% force 101 really made things worse in terms of shake and didnt effect much the feel in the center as it used to when I last used it that way.

ATM after a few laps I have stuck to

Gain 87%
Filter 5%
Damping 3%
Kerb 35%
Road 30%
Slip 20%

Felt quite good when loosing rear and no excessive shaking and rattling, with fairly quick response in a slide. Trying settings I was a bit slower in the DTM at Silver inter track but thats just a change in feel. Did 1:10.2 with these settings on my qualy set but could easily have gone under 10 with a better lap.

Having the effects very high I was quite a bit off mostly due to the shaking mid corner probably taking away confidence and I am sure I wasnt getting severe under steer at the same time as sliding the rear about 30 degrees.  ;)

I like the FFB be to be smooth in a straight line and letting go of the wheel should not force it to shake itself off the road. But on track I mostly want to feel the center when in a slide to make correcting much easier but not so strong as to overpower it. To check clipping use the pedals app and make sure the right bar never goes red in regular cornering, not too much of an issue over kerbs and bumps as it will still clip there its just under full cornering load it should never go beyond max force.

Input lag is what effects the disconnected feeling and the worse this is the more awkward it will feel in a slide as you see things after they have already happened. Not so critical in regular smooth driving but on the edge any lag will hurt your reaction times and chance of catching a slide or spinning.

 

Offline Phil

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2014, 03:49:14 PM »
That's good to hear you found it worthwhile, if you haven't already try Nords in the 599XXX with 125% on each effect, let me know what you think,  These settings seem to be more noticeable on a track that isn't super smooth like Silverstone.

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2014, 04:12:02 PM »
Will these settings work the same for a G27?

Offline marty

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2014, 04:20:40 PM »
Will these settings work the same for a G27?

Pretty sure internals of g25 and g27 are the same or very close so should be ok with it. Using the settings as I posted has given me a bit more feel and improved my PB a little more with a still far from perfect lap.



I find turning those up much more then what I have atm causes too many rattles and shakes so effects at 35,30,20 are feeling quite nice. Could try a bit higher still but I just dont like excessive shaking especially if going in a straight line, thats normally the time just before a wheel comes off in a real car but you dont feel that unless something is wrong with the wheel or tyre.

Offline Phil

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2014, 04:44:02 PM »
Well done Marty very impressive, btw where did you make a mistake?

Offline marty

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Re: DTM Car G25 Max FFB No Clipping Setup
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2014, 05:09:36 PM »
T1 wasnt great and braked a little late into t2 missing the apex was down about .3 there and took it very easy in the last chicane as I was well up on my PB entering it but still did that section fairly well just not fully commited where it could have gained another .1 maybe. Its still quite tricky to put a very fast lap together but my bad laps are not too far off and its the first sector that generally I find easier to lose .5 on.

Funnily on the hard tyres I think it could be possible to go under 1:10 with a perfect lap in the race if needed but they are within .6 of my soft pace on a good lap for both. Just the softs lose about 1-2 second in 5 laps and the hards are pretty good over 20 laps as fuel drops and temps build they get faster.

 

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