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New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download

Author Topic: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download  (Read 26184 times)

Offline Wally

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New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« on: December 11, 2014, 07:53:27 AM »
Please download 0.8 here: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/a-pit-lane-penalty-app-for-repeated-track-cutting.17852/
  • Resets warnings if a race session is restarted.
  • Added invisible mode (no app title or border, transparent). Edit "steamapps\common\assettocorsa\apps\python\PitLanePenalty\PLP.ini" to set INVISIBLE_MODE=1.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 08:14:36 AM »
Would it be worth considering turning the cutting detection off for the first few corners or first lap?  I figure this is when multiple cars are going into corners and may be forced to run off the track to avoid collisions?

Anyway app seems to be working well so far Wally and hopefully means people don't need to be keeping an eye on the competition.

Offline marty

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2014, 08:57:03 AM »
I think it works well if you go off track and lift off it doesnt register a cut as during the Monza race once I missed my braking into t1 so went straight on. I made sure I gained no advantage and the app didnt see it as a cut. Another time I missed the emtry at the second chicane again slowed enough to not gain any advantage and it wasnt a cut. Many times I think its too soft but I dont think the point is to maake you too scared to run a regular line just to pull you inline if overdoing it.

On lap 1 of race 1 in the replay I saw lots of people miss the second chicane at the second apex while gaining a clear advantage. Not sure if these were considered cuts but I think they should be. I dont know exactly how much you need to slow to avoid a cut but for me mistakes havent been counted as cuts if I lift off and slow down. If you go off track but keep it floored it is a cut and it should be, the person has made a mistake but avoided any pain and didnt lose any time and likely gained some.

You really need to do a proper cut to register so nobody should have any complaints about any that are counted. Lap 1 if you need to go off track then no reason why it shouldnt be a cut. After all its not a direct penalty on first offense

Offline Wally

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2014, 09:11:10 AM »
Yeah, the truck is to slow when you're off track. You only have to slow by 10% and it's not a cut. Its not worth turning it off at T1.

I might test that chicane if I get a chance. One thing I noticed in my testing is that the game gives you some latitude on certain parts of some tracks. I can only work with how many wheels the game tells me are off-track.
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Offline Gratulin

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2014, 10:47:50 AM »
Wally, I had a couple of cuts in Race 2 this week where I lost lap time due to a mistake but still recorded a cut. Perhaps worth looking at those?

Offline Wally

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 12:30:31 PM »
Wally, I had a couple of cuts in Race 2 this week where I lost lap time due to a mistake but still recorded a cut. Perhaps worth looking at those?

Can you give me some specifics about where on the track, and what you think you did?
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Offline Gratulin

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 03:02:25 PM »
Wally, I had a couple of cuts in Race 2 this week where I lost lap time due to a mistake but still recorded a cut. Perhaps worth looking at those?

Can you give me some specifics about where on the track, and what you think you did?
I found one in the replay. It was at Ascari. I ran wide out of first left. Because of the next right it looks like a cut but I lost time. It wasn't a problem - just good to give feedback so you can see how PLP handles this situation. Use the Camera and car number in the replay file name to see the back of my car - it's the one all beaten up  ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xg1aro30a3n0el/Ascari%20cut%20lap2%20cam3%20car5?dl=0

Offline marty

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 04:12:00 PM »
Wally, I had a couple of cuts in Race 2 this week where I lost lap time due to a mistake but still recorded a cut. Perhaps worth looking at those?

Can you give me some specifics about where on the track, and what you think you did?
I found one in the replay. It was at Ascari. I ran wide out of first left. Because of the next right it looks like a cut but I lost time. It wasn't a problem - just good to give feedback so you can see how PLP handles this situation. Use the Camera and car number in the replay file name to see the back of my car - it's the one all beaten up  ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xg1aro30a3n0el/Ascari%20cut%20lap2%20cam3%20car5?dl=0

I had a look at the replay and here is your car at the 3 Apexes we can see in the replay.



I actually thought the app was too soft through this section and allowed too much cutting but you can clearly see that you are 4 wheels across the line at the first and second apex. The only reason you didnt gain time is because it gets unsettled over those kerbs but I still think that should really be 2 cuts or maybe just 1 if the app counts 2 cuts so close together as a single cut.

In most race series that line being used regularly would get an unsportsman like conduct warning and continued use of such a line would get a drive through. Even if time isnt gained its still going outside track limits in order to gain an advantage of going straighter through the chicane.

In V8 supercar racing they use a transponder system in the track and car to detect cuts at many street circuits such as Gold Coast and Adelaide. It is very clear and definitive 4 wheels outside the line is counted as an infraction and can be seen in many replays they have shown of cars being detected. It works very well except the drivers do tend to game the system a bit and if they have no strikes til the end of the race and are in a battle they abuse the system a bit. Still if a position is gained or not lost by being outside track limits they will get a penalty but if they are just on their own a slight cut which will gain some time is permitted as long as they are under their cut limit.

I dont think thats the idea of the system to allow all to have 3 or 4 cuts per race more to stop excessive track limit abuses but its pretty hard to make any more rules agains it. Having a clear written rule of this many infractions equals a penalty at least shouldn't draw any complaints from drivers. Also nobody had more then 2 cuts at Monza because its a pretty lenient track on boundaries and it seems the kerbs may be considered inside the track. In the pics of yours I am not sure if the track boundary is the second smaller white line inside the kerb at the first part. The other 2 apexes dont have a second white line so using this line it would be just the one cut on the second apex. That would make more sense of why its only one cut and why that entry was so hard to register a cut. Going 4 wheels over the smaller white line would be a time loss but its still a cut the time loss is just because of the larger kerbs placed there to also make you stay inside limits.

Offline Gratulin

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 04:41:17 PM »
Marty, no issue with calling it a cut(s) - I didn't want to debate that. Only wanted to provide my feedback to Wally for his App that I lost some control and lost time. Happy with how PLP works at present since it makes everyone drive within the limits of the circuit without there being silly penalties.

Offline marty

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2014, 05:11:09 PM »
I know what your saying Gratulin that you only cut because you lost control but there is no way for the app to know that, you really haven't slowed through there much other then being slowed by the kerbs unsettling the car either I think. So had you slowed you would have lost more time so its still a net gain by going off track as fast as possible in my opinion.

In an ideal system there would be a cut system linked to sector times and also gaps to opponents, this way it could check if time was gained over the sector. Using a delta system like mini apps PB delta it could compare the delta vs your pb delta on a lap that had no cuts. through the section you cut the track and if you were gaining on the delta during the cut or being within a certain time of it then it would consider it a cut. Also if there was a way to compare against gaps to the field showing if you gained much time to those ahead or behind during an off track excursion it could consider it a cut.

No automated system will ever be perfect and why real stewards are used in race control to make such decisions in real series. Using delta and gap to opponents would work in most cases but also I have no idea how hard that would be to implement. Pretty bloody hard for me and maybe even for Wally but he is a genius.  ;D Still using Deltas and gaps if someone doesn't have a proper delta set then it wouldn't really work, how does it deal with gaps in slow moving traffic as you may need to avoid someone and run off track. Its probably possible to make a pretty good cut system using such data and adding some exclusions where it would go back to a more basic system as we have now if the more detailed data isnt available.

But such a system really should be implemented by kunos along with a very basic qualy cut that simply excludes a qualy lap if a cut is detected. This should be server side adjustable to how many tyres out are permitted and I think that is all thats needed for qualy. In a race its much more complicated and what Wally has done is a great move and much better then the alternative of the Kunos slow down nastiness. Can this be taken further? Only Wally knows or if the devs take the system and expand on it. I really think it will take modders to make a real proper system as so far Kunos have shown they have enough trouble showing how many cars are in a server and getting their laptimes to register properly.  ;D

Offline Wally

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2014, 05:13:12 PM »
I'd have to test it, but again, the game is a bit lenient in some places on how many wheels it reports are out of the track. It's possible that the game is calling that as  more than one wheel still on track.
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Offline marty

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2014, 05:30:08 PM »
Also I kind of like what Brundle had to say on the issue during an F1 race I watched, he said just make it no wheels allowed outside the track boundary. When the drivers complain and say thats not possible then as them to explain how they can keep all wheels inside the boundary at Monaco.  ;D

The way the app works atm its mostly catching deliberate cuts or small errors causing a cut if the driver doesnt lift off to take some pain for their error. At many track days you will be black flagged simply for getting more then 2 wheels outside the boundary on 3 occasions and 4 wheels off may be an instant end to your session. This is a safety issue to other drivers as anyone that cant keep the car within the track is showing they are driving beyond their control and are a hazard to others. We are only sim racing so no need to be so strict, no chance of injury or real damage but someone that regularly runs off track should slow more to stay in control.

Not saying this is a case with anyone in the league and clearly it wasnt last round seeing how few cuts were made during the entire race nite. But if someone is cutting due to loss of control and not properly slowing to regain control and not taking the pain then getting a cut warning will help them avoid repeating that.

I'd have to test it, but again, the game is a bit lenient in some places on how many wheels it reports are out of the track. It's possible that the game is calling that as  more than one wheel still on track.

I have a feeling that the entry to Ascari chicane uses the smaller white line as the track boundary. In real GT racing the cars also take lots of chicane there but I thought it was a bit leniant especially there and the exit of ascari allowing all 4 wheels outside without penalty.

At Nurburgring its quite soft on the exit of turn 4 allowing you to run 4 wheels off on the exit which can gain quite a bit of time. RSR doesnt allow this but the ingame cut and app are fairly soft there, in older f1 days they used all of that exit. But now they even added a kerb on the exit to stop drivers abusing that section.



See the kerb added there for the 2013 race.

[youtube]cmejK7-s2iM[/youtube]

Compare that lap to Schumacher in 2004 for pole at t4

[youtube]pHfW2dw2aC4[/youtube]



Offline Bacchulum

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2014, 05:58:57 PM »
I haven't got my money's worth out of 0.7 yet Wally, I've only used it once (and didn't use up any warnings :()
I feel I'm getting ripped off. :P :P ;D

2+2=√16

Offline Wally

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2014, 06:20:00 PM »
0.8 is for your benefit ;)
It means if we have to restart the race, your warnings get wiped.
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Offline Bacchulum

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Re: New pit lane penalty app: 0.8 for download
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2014, 07:03:03 PM »
Not my benefit Wally.
Like I said, I haven't used up any warnings yet. ;)

(I'm just being a smart-arse, thanks for the work ;))

2+2=√16

 

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