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Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa

Author Topic: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa  (Read 31269 times)

Offline marty

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2017, 05:42:45 PM »
Just to show how RSR times really are only good for a basic guide here are my RSR laps in this combo.


This compared to the list I posted earlier regarding fastest pro mode times before. Every lap faster then mine is done on an older build mostly v 1.11.x which seems it was a fair bit quicker then current builds with some times I dont think possible to match any more. Even so in many combos there werent that many times and not that many very quick ones where I was considerably faster then the old times.

Ruf RT12R     2:34.631  2:33.828  283kmh
458                2:34.765  2:36.028  265kmh
911 R             2:35.214  2:36.266  260kmh
911 Turbo S   2:35.580  2:35.659  267kmh
Mp4 12C        2:36.253  2:35.234  272kmh
Gallardo SL    2:36.261  2:34.272  264kmh
911 GT3 RS    2:36.318  2:34.214  260kmh
GTR Nismo     2:36.508  2:36.644  262kmh
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 05:52:13 PM by marty »

Offline Wally

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2017, 06:32:45 PM »
So the moral of the story is pick a car you enjoy from these evenly matched cars (2 secs difference over a 2:35 lap, a difference of 1.3%) and have fun.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Joe

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2017, 06:45:55 PM »
So the moral of the story is pick a car you enjoy from these evenly matched cars (2 secs difference over a 2:35 lap, a difference of 1.3%) and have fun.

Thanks for the summary as I gave up reading the long posts a while ago  ;D

Offline marty

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2017, 07:06:31 PM »
So the moral of the story is pick a car you enjoy from these evenly matched cars (2 secs difference over a 2:35 lap, a difference of 1.3%) and have fun.

RSR hotlaps are a little different to the server though as some cars do benefit from tyre warmers more then others at least for the first couple of laps when tyres are at their best. In the server some cars take an extra lap or so to get to temp and some never quite get there or get there when the tyres have already lost their best performance by a second or so.  The bottom 5 cars in the server are within 1.073 seconds which is very close but then there is a gap where the top 3 are within .861 off each other but have a bigger gap (1.282) from 3rd to the 4th car then the bottom 5 have from each other.



Looking at all others lap times though there arent many within 3 seconds of the 2:35 time in any of the bottom 5 cars so saying its 2 seconds between all cars when in server the best laps are 3.216 seconds from 1st to 8th is a little off I think.

Offline marty

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2017, 07:08:46 PM »
So the moral of the story is pick a car you enjoy from these evenly matched cars (2 secs difference over a 2:35 lap, a difference of 1.3%) and have fun.

Thanks for the summary as I gave up reading the long posts a while ago  ;D

Post above had 1 more line then Wallys of actual text.  ;)
Summary is a bit out when the difference between fastest and slowest car is considerably more then 2 seconds too.  ;) the fastest and 4th fastest of 8 is actually a bigger gap then 2 seconds with 4 more cars behind that another second apart.

Offline UnFknBLievable

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2017, 07:35:28 PM »
why don't we just narrow the car choice down to the 458 and the MP4. Marty's best times with those cars are 2.36 - wouldn't that be a more fair choice between cars?

If we wanted to add a driver/car ranking system, then the slower guys can drive the Lambo or the GT3 RS. That way, the slower guys get a faster car, the faster guys gets a choice of 2 cars of equal times.

problem solved.

Offline marty

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2017, 08:31:53 PM »
why don't we just narrow the car choice down to the 458 and the MP4. Marty's best times with those cars are 2.36 - wouldn't that be a more fair choice between cars?

If we wanted to add a driver/car ranking system, then the slower guys can drive the Lambo or the GT3 RS. That way, the slower guys get a faster car, the faster guys gets a choice of 2 cars of equal times.

problem solved.

I think all of the bottom 5 cars are really pretty close, potentially within about .5 here most likely within 1 sec at most tracks. I dont really want to go just on my times but just going by whats fastest in the server and not all have ran laps there but I would be surprised if anyone could find that extra second or two in anything in those bottom 5. The ranking system would be fine just how is it done is the tricky bit but in the end a season with open choice is still fine as the spread isnt heaps. But anything Mclaren down would be very hard to be up front of the pack if any of the guys regularly at the front of the pack chose the others. Its still not a huge deal as people could just pick their own challenge, the surprising thing is how some cars seem to have change in the latest build and so mid season there could be more updates changing things again.

If any of the slower guys get the top 3 cars it would give them more chance of running up front which would bring the racing closer but still some may find one car easier over others so it doesnt mean always the bottom half pace wise will be fastest in those. Whichever way it goes is fine my suggestion for the ranking was based on what gzero posted earlier, and the points bonus would be more to encourage quicker guys to go for slower cars. They would be more likely to still get these cars up near the front of the pack so could take advantage of a bonus and also if one chose the faster car then they would likely need very good results every race to score enough points which is why that sort of system of encouraging slower car choice could work best.

The way of getting everyone to run in the mid pack cars early isnt always a great indicator as a bad race can mean a faster guy gets the too fast cars next race and this was kind of a problem when we ran that type of system with street cars in another season. I dont know if there is enough data to find say the guys regularly within 1.5 sec of lead pace over many seasons as that would be the only real way to limit the car choice by a type of historical handicap.

Offline Bacchulum

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2017, 10:14:36 PM »
So the moral of the story is pick a car you enjoy from these evenly matched cars (2 secs difference over a 2:35 lap, a difference of 1.3%) and have fun.

Thanks for the summary as I gave up reading the long posts a while ago  ;D
I gave up reading them before you even showed up around here. :o

2+2=√16

Offline marty

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2017, 10:32:11 PM »
Maybe Wally should set a world limit per post like twitter as anything bigger is too much to take in for many these days.  ::)

Offline UnFknBLievable

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2017, 11:49:12 AM »
Quote
If any of the slower guys get the top 3 cars it would give them more chance of running up front which would bring the racing closer but still some may find one car easier over others so it doesnt mean always the bottom half pace wise will be fastest in those. Whichever way it goes is fine my suggestion for the ranking was based on what gzero posted earlier, and the points bonus would be more to encourage quicker guys to go for slower cars. They would be more likely to still get these cars up near the front of the pack so could take advantage of a bonus and also if one chose the faster car then they would likely need very good results every race to score enough points which is why that sort of system of encouraging slower car choice could work best

I don't think bonus points should be awarded then. The slower drivers even in faster cars most likely will not produce the same lap times as a fast driver, therefore the driver/car offset is already applied. Giving the bonus points to faster drivers who are more likely to be in top 8 is only going to keep fast drivers ahead in the points and harder for the rest of the pack to achieve competitive points through the season.

I say keep with the ballast system and drivers need to learn to adjust.

Offline Wally

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2017, 12:53:18 PM »
So far, I'm not considering bonus points or ballast. It's all just innuendo :)
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline marty

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2017, 01:23:24 PM »
I don't think bonus points should be awarded then. The slower drivers even in faster cars most likely will not produce the same lap times as a fast driver, therefore the driver/car offset is already applied. Giving the bonus points to faster drivers who are more likely to be in top 8 is only going to keep fast drivers ahead in the points and harder for the rest of the pack to achieve competitive points through the season.

I say keep with the ballast system and drivers need to learn to adjust.
[/quote]

Not thats its likely to happen but bonus points would make racing more interesting, after all anyone could chose a car thats a bit slower and would give them the bonus points. If there is nothing like that then no reason for the quick guys not to simply pick the quickest cars and be 2 seconds or so a lap ahead of the others in the same car.  ;)

As is there really isnt much incentive to chose a slower car unless someone wants more of a challenge but likely have no chance of winning races. I had a run with Kcender in the gt3 rs and me in the Nissan gtr over 5 laps I was 9.5 seconds behind and set a server best for the car and was on the limit every lap where I maybe would not possibly have gained another .2 on the run. Phil was in the 458 same race and also set a server best in the 458 that race but was unable to match the pace either. The 3 of us in the same car would be fairly close but against a quick guy in a quick car there is no hope for anyone in the slower ones so not much reason to use them.

Another option would be to simply drop the 3 fastest cars and then there is very little between the rest as its less then 1 second per lap between the other 5 cars.

Offline Simone

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2017, 02:05:32 PM »
You guys make it so complicated no jokes. Just lets race and forget about.ABattle for 24th position is just as good as a battle for 1st,getting a bit annoyed  over how to deal and make the faster driver slow or whatever........a question......are you guys smoking crack cocaine???????

Offline marty

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2017, 03:00:24 PM »
You guys make it so complicated no jokes. Just lets race and forget about.ABattle for 24th position is just as good as a battle for 1st,getting a bit annoyed  over how to deal and make the faster driver slow or whatever........a question......are you guys smoking crack cocaine???????

I think either have all cars as close as possible in performance so everyone has a reasonable chance in any car or if there are a few considerably quicker then the others its not likely anyone will chose those unless they are simply given to the slightly slower guys to help them get a bit closer. Get a slower guy in a slower guy vs a faster guy in the faster car and the difference in laptimes at Spa will be more then 7 seconds per lap.  ;) Why would the slower guy then chose to give an extra 3 or 4 seconds per lap start to the guys that are already quicker. If the faster guys chose a slower car then anyone they would normally race that choses one of the 3 faster ones they will be at least 2 seconds per lap slower so again what incentive is there to chose any of the 5 slowest cars even if they are all very close if the other 3 give you 2 seconds per lap advantage?

Sure you can run a single make series but having varied cars that are close in performance but doing it a bit differently is kind of the main point of such a series and 5 of these cars are like this as are the top 3 but all 8 combined are almost like 2 classes.

Offline marty

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Re: Fun run Mar 7: Supercars at Spa
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2017, 03:05:43 PM »
Even though some seem annoyed with any discussions in the forum maybe they should avoid forums made for discussions ;) We will run these tonight and it should be fun but it will be fairly easy to prove my point in the races. It would be good to maybe run the races on the prac server where stracker is running to then get proper lap data for all drivers in all cars and get a good indication of how the cars match up and how far apart everyones laptimes are in each.

The main reason I am going on about this is these would be a fun mixed car season, we just either need fairly evenly matched cars or maybe use the difference between a few as a way to balance out the field.

 

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