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Season 5 leak

Author Topic: Season 5 leak  (Read 33069 times)

Offline Bird

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2014, 07:17:53 PM »
Not sure if this is the right place to bring this up but seeing as we are airing our thoughts...

Is it worth taking another look at the way the points system works?   At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time.   I know the aim is to be consistent but sometimes things occur outside your control such as a disconnect,  and I think quite a few of us haven't been able to attend every round.

I don't think it needs changing.  If someone can't turn up every round, it's fine, you drop your worst round anyway.
Other technical difficulties - we always said, it's a bit like real life, sometimes your brake fluid leaks...

But it'd be good to have fixed car for a season, I agree.  I'm better, too, if I can learn into a car (Cobra case in point).  And I lack the time and the will to do much praccy...

Offline Bacchulum

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2014, 07:34:45 PM »
There's some good parity in the GT2/GT3 classes, but people will probably want to move on to something else.
Yeah, I sort of meant I should've said something 6 weeks ago. :P

2+2=√16

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2014, 08:26:20 PM »
Not sure if this is the right place to bring this up but seeing as we are airing our thoughts...

Is it worth taking another look at the way the points system works?   At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time.   I know the aim is to be consistent but sometimes things occur outside your control such as a disconnect,  and I think quite a few of us haven't been able to attend every round.

I don't think it needs changing.  If someone can't turn up every round, it's fine, you drop your worst round anyway.
Other technical difficulties - we always said, it's a bit like real life, sometimes your brake fluid leaks...

But it'd be good to have fixed car for a season, I agree.  I'm better, too, if I can learn into a car (Cobra case in point).  And I lack the time and the will to do much praccy...

Yes, but if you miss a round then you only need one negative event - such as someone else running into you, or a disconnect, etc. - and you are pretty much out of the running.

If you consider a disconnect, or other unrealistic event (such as someone warping into you) as a substitute for a real world mechanical failure in order to be realistic, then we should also consider that no other real world series points system works the same way as this one as far as I know.

Most series go by a percentage spread between 1st and each following place. As an example, the percentage spread of points between 1st and 10th place for the V8's, F1 and XGN are:

V8:    100%, 92%, 85%, 80%, 73%, 68%, 64%, 60%, 56%, 52%
F1:     100%, 72%, 60%, 48%, 40%, 32%, 24%, 16%,  8%,  4%
XGN: 100%, 96%, 92%, 87%, 83%, 79%, 75%, 71%, 67%, 63%


Offline Bacchulum

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2014, 09:04:39 PM »
By the percentages you've given there Guy, XGN has less disadvantage for finishing lower.
The others put much more weight on a win which would make the situation you describe worse.
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At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time.

2+2=√16

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2014, 09:27:52 PM »
By the percentages you've given there Guy, XGN has less disadvantage for finishing lower.
The others put much more weight on a win which would make the situation you describe worse.
Quote
At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time.

Yeah, what I meant was finishing full-stop.  So if you drop out of a race.

Offline Wally

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2014, 10:02:42 PM »
I want to give everyone who races some points, as an incentive, not just the top 10. Otherwise, what are the other 14 guys racing for?
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2014, 10:12:49 PM »
I want to give everyone who races some points, as an incentive, not just the top 10. Otherwise, what are the other 14 guys racing for?

Yes, I agree.  In that case, instead of decreasing the number of points available, increase them.  So the winner might get 100 points, and then 83, 70, 60... etc. down to 1 point for 24th.  Just as an example.

Offline Mopz

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2014, 10:14:57 PM »
Even I'am drooling at the thought.. I would love to be part of this

Offline Wally

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2014, 11:28:17 PM »
I want to give everyone who races some points, as an incentive, not just the top 10. Otherwise, what are the other 14 guys racing for?

Yes, I agree.  In that case, instead of decreasing the number of points available, increase them.  So the winner might get 100 points, and then 83, 70, 60... etc. down to 1 point for 24th.  Just as an example.

What does that achieve? I suppose it gives more weight to finishing in a higher position.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline marty

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2014, 11:47:28 PM »
The points system isn't too bad, sure you miss a race and have more bad luck in another with computer issues your going to be down some points like I have been this season. My issues also happened on the 2 tracks I like most and am fairly good at so that makes it worse but tough luck to me.

Still the way it is Im not as far away as I would be with most other point systems and in the end it really doesn't matter as long as I find a way to win in the end.  ;D

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2014, 07:33:23 AM »
I want to give everyone who races some points, as an incentive, not just the top 10. Otherwise, what are the other 14 guys racing for?

Yes, I agree.  In that case, instead of decreasing the number of points available, increase them.  So the winner might get 100 points, and then 83, 70, 60... etc. down to 1 point for 24th.  Just as an example.

What does that achieve? I suppose it gives more weight to finishing in a higher position.

It means there is a greater opportunity for someone who doesn't have a good race to make upffor it and still be in the running to win.

For example,  let's say there are 12 races worth equal points.  Even if someone wins every race but misses a round and then gets taken out,  etc. in one of the other races then they are 24 points down.  So with the lack of spread in the current points system someone who comes 3rd every race,  or potentially 4th every race would still win the whole thing.

Most real world points systems seem to give winning and finishing on the podium a greater distribution of points

Most

Offline Wally

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2014, 07:47:45 AM »
It's worth a look. I adopted this very evenly spaced scheme in the netKar ballast days, because it stops people who aren't doing so well in a race from throwing that race away, sacrificing only a handful of points, to get a much faster car the next race, winning easily and getting a bag of points. The weighted scheme is a bit more ”real world” for unhandicapped racing, but can have this side effect for handicapped racing.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Bird

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2014, 10:12:50 AM »
By the sound of it Guy just wants to win something - which is fair dinkum, considering his pace even in the slowest cars.  This could also be balanced via extra points for shitty cars.  Sortof like the 0.5 point/50kg rule was.

Offline marty

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2014, 10:35:26 AM »
There is definatly an advantage to running each round and missing one plus having a bad race puts you in a bad position. Race 2 now is double points so have a bad one there you are down 48 points. Giving more points to the winner or higher finishers would just make you more points down on a poor race though wouldnt it? Still you would get more points for wins so can claw some more back assuming its not your main rival winning the races you dont complete.

I dont think you really need to give more points to slower cars as Guy is winning this handicao series and another great driver  ;D won the last handicap series driving a standard Elise. If its already possible to win with the slower cars I dont think giving more points for these is going to help the others much.

Also as Wally says if you gain more by winning and lose less in a poor race the advantage in underperforming one race to get a better car and easier win the next may allow for more gaming of the handicaps. As it is you can try your best each race and still have a chance  but if points are changed. Someone could win every second race nite and come out on top just due to gaming the handicap system.

Now if you did this and get a first one race and near the back the next you would have been better off just finishing in the top 10 twice. So there is no advantage to such a strategy and I think thats a good thing to help keep people with the real handicaps they should have.

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: Season 5 leak
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2014, 01:47:12 PM »
By the sound of it Guy just wants to win something - which is fair dinkum, considering his pace even in the slowest cars.  This could also be balanced via extra points for shitty cars.  Sortof like the 0.5 point/50kg rule was.

It would be great to win something but the reality is I'm probably not likely to given my work commitments and the caliber of the other great drivers in this league.  Also, I doubt any results of mine would have changed previously even with a different points system in place.

The point is to look at whether we/Wally want to reflect the real world systems which offer a greater comparative reward the higher up you finish.

 

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