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AC News

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Offline Bird

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Re: AC News
« Reply #660 on: April 23, 2015, 11:07:23 AM »
Dick your opinion reeks of inexperience in sims :)
At least racing sims.  You should try a few more.

Offline Dick Forrest

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Re: AC News
« Reply #661 on: April 23, 2015, 11:44:23 AM »
Dick your opinion reeks of inexperience in sims :)
At least racing sims.  You should try a few more.

Yeah very true bird! it just feels like half to 3/4 of a game. And if you're not computer savvy, you'll probably never see any modded content Like tracks.
  i know plenty of over 40s who have computers but if there isn't a icon on thier desktop, they are screwed.

I don't know why wreckfest gets bagged. Sure long roll out, taking thier time, driving physics aren't AC but it's not shockingly bad. But thier crash physics are sweet. Even if they are the same bends in panels each crash. But that's the type of damage I'd like to see in AC.

That's the main, biggest let down for me in AC. The damage.

Edit. And ballast. Sounds like ballast is vital to making sim racing fun and keep it competitive. why hasn't it been added? I'm doubting it will be.

And I've played other racing sims....
grand theft auto and Mario cart..
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 12:35:47 PM by Dick Forrest »

Offline marty

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Re: AC News
« Reply #662 on: April 23, 2015, 12:48:07 PM »
That's bloody long winded.  What's the gist of it?  Will they concentrate on multiplayer more, or forget it?

Didn't read it all. Think it's just another promo story..

AC is not a finished game. But that seems pretty standard these days, release a game, then give game fixes as 'updates' or even better,  DLC.

I'm loving AC. Would i recommend it to friends? No. It's not worth 60 bucks. It's a work in progress. It is far from user friendly, the menus, especially in game are awkward. You need to go to other sources to learn how to play, modify, install tracks, skins etc.

Net code is a constant work in progress.
We can't race bumper to bumper without unnatural collisions.
Damage is laughable and very disappointing. For me that totally ruins immersion and it might as well be a console racer.
harsh critic? You bet. They promised the best racing sim ever..  I'm still waiting.

I think Kunos are over it. Bit off more then they can chew. They are all rich and ready to move on.

AC will be sold to ea sports in the next 12 months.

Sorry I didn't read your entire post either  ;) could you summarize it for me or maybe I will just make some assumptions from the first paragraph and knowing your post history assume the rest is all hello kitty related.

Offline Bird

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Re: AC News
« Reply #663 on: April 23, 2015, 01:05:57 PM »
Dick your opinion reeks of inexperience in sims :)
At least racing sims.  You should try a few more.

Yeah very true bird! it just feels like half to 3/4 of a game. And if you're not computer savvy, you'll probably never see any modded content Like tracks.
  i know plenty of over 40s who have computers but if there isn't a icon on thier desktop, they are screwed.

I don't know why wreckfest gets bagged. Sure long roll out, taking thier time, driving physics aren't AC but it's not shockingly bad. But thier crash physics are sweet. Even if they are the same bends in panels each crash. But that's the type of damage I'd like to see in AC.

That's the main, biggest let down for me in AC. The damage.

Edit. And ballast. Sounds like ballast is vital to making sim racing fun and keep it competitive. why hasn't it been added? I'm doubting it will be.

And I've played other racing sims....
grand theft auto and Mario cart..


I sortof get your feelings, I was the same 10 or so years ago.  Ok maybe 20.  It's not an age thing; it's that your "wants" are different.  I was the same when I started with driving games.
You don't really want accurate physics and great driving experience; you want "fun", you want to see great visuals, etc. 

Try driving games, instead of sims, then.  They focus on these things.   Sims focus on simulation of driving - and the best out there in this regards is AC at the moment. 

You can't really blame them for lack of ballast - they have never promised it. No other game has it, except nkp.  It's just we'd love to have it.
They've released an early alpha, and we have just reached 1.0 not long ago.   And they keep improving.  And that's good.

To give you some things to consider;  iRacing was late with their new tyre model from the announced release date by about a year.  And you pay top dollars to play iRacing, not peanuts!  There's a subscription, PLUS every piece of content (car or track) costs $15-$35 US.  And forget modding. 
It has a great online component tho.

There's LFS.  It was going strong, it was going to be released in 3 parts.  They sold S1 S2 S3 licences.   It's still in S2 beta, not moving for a few years now. 

There was nkp, it was fantastic, but we had to wait for kunos to pick himself together form a seemingly total breakdown, took about 1.5yrs but the end result was good.  It was very hard to mod, though, and there wasn't much content.

There was rFactor, the modders paradise.  It was pretty crappola by default, the tyre model was mediocre, but modders managed to squeeze a lot out of it.  However, you needed a degree to install everything to make it right. 

There's an rF2 building, not sure where it's at, but it's majorly lagging, too.  Reportedly pretty good tyre model, even weather is on the horizon. 

(None of the above have the visual damage you are looking for, mind you.)

As I said, try stuff, play stuff, if your priority is good damage, then play arcade games, those focus on pieces flying, sparks & other great visuals.  And even better, you need only one pedal to play it!  :D 
ok this last part was a joke.  In all seriousness; I play arcade-ish racers occasionally, too, for the fun of it, (eg TDU series). 

But for sim racing, AC is the one, at the moment. 
It costs peanuts. 
If you don't believe me, play iRacing for 2 years.  After 2 years and about $1000 in expenses your horizons will expand a bit ;)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 01:08:55 PM by Bird »

Offline Dick Forrest

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Re: AC News
« Reply #664 on: April 23, 2015, 01:07:17 PM »
That's bloody long winded.  What's the gist of it?  Will they concentrate on multiplayer more, or forget it?

Didn't read it all. Think it's just another promo story..

AC is not a finished game. But that seems pretty standard these days, release a game, then give game fixes as 'updates' or even better,  DLC.

I'm loving AC. Would i recommend it to friends? No. It's not worth 60 bucks. It's a work in progress. It is far from user friendly, the menus, especially in game are awkward. You need to go to other sources to learn how to play, modify, install tracks, skins etc.

Net code is a constant work in progress.
We can't race bumper to bumper without unnatural collisions.
Damage is laughable and very disappointing. For me that totally ruins immersion and it might as well be a console racer.
harsh critic? You bet. They promised the best racing sim ever..  I'm still waiting.

I think Kunos are over it. Bit off more then they can chew. They are all rich and ready to move on.

AC will be sold to ea sports in the next 12 months.

Sorry I didn't read your entire post either  ;) could you summarize it for me or maybe I will just make some assumptions from the first paragraph and knowing your post history assume the rest is all hello kitty related.

Yes yes. You forgot the bit where i brag about beating marty the last two race meets.

I'm bored at work. So xgn forums cop it.

Offline Dick Forrest

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Re: AC News
« Reply #665 on: April 23, 2015, 01:36:07 PM »
You're right bird. I'm a arcade racer playing a sim..

In fact I'm really a gamer, looking for arcade racing with sim physics.

you are all hardcore sim racers. I look at the car set up screens and have no idea what is going on. And where i differ from most of you guys, is i don't care or want to know.  :)
If i can find a set up made I'll try it. If not i just go default.

I'm probably the worst driver around, that isn't a young teenager. I'm not really worried about that. I'm more about having a laugh and a good time with
a bunch of freaks on the Internet. 








Offline Bird

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Re: AC News
« Reply #666 on: April 23, 2015, 01:56:27 PM »
That's the spirit!

Btw I'd love to see that game, too, that has AC physics and all the fluff, and TDU maps and traffic...but it's a dream, for now.  We're a very tiny slice of the populace.  Most arcade racers simply can't handle normal physics.

Hell, even the AC AI handling is a bit off...try to hit an AI.  You pretty much can't get them crash, while you'll go flying from the slightest touch.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 01:58:05 PM by Bird »

Offline Dick Forrest

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Re: AC News
« Reply #667 on: April 23, 2015, 02:14:12 PM »
That's the spirit!

Btw I'd love to see that game, too, that has AC physics and all the fluff, and TDU maps and traffic...but it's a dream, for now.  We're a very tiny slice of the populace.  Most arcade racers simply can't handle normal physics.

Hell, even the AC AI handling is a bit off...try to hit an AI.  You pretty much can't get them crash, while you'll go flying from the slightest touch.

We should always want more. It keeps them working hard.
Just quietly, AC looks beautiful, the cars look so real in a race. Lots of tiny details make the game look lifelike.... give me more! !

i guess we are as far as non military physics engines and crash physics can go. Without us having a huge budget for super computers like Marty.

Offline Bird

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Re: AC News
« Reply #668 on: April 23, 2015, 02:15:58 PM »
i guess we are as far as non military physics engines and crash physics can go. Without us having a huge budget for super computers like Marty.
I don't think so.  As long as Moore's law works, we'll have computing power in abundance in a few years to create even more accurate simulations.

Offline marty

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Re: AC News
« Reply #669 on: April 23, 2015, 03:58:25 PM »
i guess we are as far as non military physics engines and crash physics can go. Without us having a huge budget for super computers like Marty.
I don't think so.  As long as Moore's law works, we'll have computing power in abundance in a few years to create even more accurate simulations.

The thing is the more detailed a sim gets the more work it will generally take, I am pretty sure making the first arcade driving game was a heck of a lot easier then making AC, RF2, Iracing, Pcars etc. I can imagine making the tracks back then was fairly simple and the entire game could have been done by one guy in his spare time. Look at the detail in tracks and cars now and thats just lots of man hours in the artistic 3d side of it. The physics if they can simply do more calculations this will help but someone still needs to write all the code for the engine then get all the data from the real world cars and tracks.

This will mean bigger budgets but then if they have resources to burn you don't need much optimization and possibly automatize much more of the process. Still in the end those that have the money to spend on development need to attract the largest budgets and its the fluff that sells these games, physics can be pretty much rubbish but they then still do ok sales wise. In order to dedicate most time on the physics side you sacrifice the fluff, this means less sales and less budget so its why we are where we are with games/sims.

Its either one or the other it seems and its more likely something like pcars with a larger budget could get closer to that game but from what I have heard physics wise its still not there. Its such a shame as even codies did all the fluff so well but then make the driving so bad anyone that wants a more sim experience misses out. If they dedicated more budget to the driving physics then quite likely more of the regular gamers will avoid it and they will go from big to small budgets rather quickly.

The thing that really makes me wonder about the big racing game devs, they seem to think that driving a real car around a real track is somehow too boring to recreate as accurately as possible. They then try to make the driving more "entertaining" which in the end for people into the real thing it become weird and pretty much un useable. To me if someone gave me a real f40 and Phillip island for a day id have the time of my life, I dont need it to go faster, have more grip, widen the track, add motion blur drink driving effects and lens flair to my eyes. Thats what all the more arade driving games tend to do and it just puts me off.

Id love to have a proper wreckfest type game to do proper banger racing like in reality, also be able to race any type of car and just try to get is as close to the real world performance as possible. Racing an F1 car I dont need to be able to easily lap 20 seconds faster then the real cars codies style or make Bathurst twice as wide as it is NFS style.

Offline Bird

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Re: AC News
« Reply #670 on: April 23, 2015, 04:16:28 PM »
The thing is the more detailed a sim gets the more work it will generally take,...

Not necessarily.

The reason devs have to cut corners and come up with smart ways to predict and create lookup tables for physics data, etc, is all because of the lack of resources.  Still today, they're using approximation models, not proper simulation.

If you have endless amounts of processing power & memory, then you can simulate every molecule of the tyre (extreme case) and thus the whole things becomes something else.

Have you seen "rigs of rods" ? The guy has created a rigid body simulation like no other, and that makes simulating accurate behaviour of big rigs very easy, you need to apply the same thing all over and over again.  It requires hefty amounts of processing power, though.

It's not good for tyre physics, of course, just mentioning it as a point in case. 


Our main problem is that tyre behaviour is the hardest thing to simulate. And there's a car, too. 
There are so many parameters; it's a flexible rubber thing (different rubber every time, surely) containing metal parts & filled with a gas, 4 of these on the end of a complex suspension, holding a semi-static piece of weight above, plus aero...and we haven't mentioned temperature, moisture...
well fuck me I would NOT like to try to write this code :D
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 04:21:24 PM by Bird »

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: AC News
« Reply #671 on: April 23, 2015, 06:09:27 PM »
Sounds like we'll be getting Zandvoort in a couple of months anyway.

Offline Bacchulum

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Re: AC News
« Reply #672 on: April 23, 2015, 06:21:56 PM »
I'd prefer a pack of 5 tracks and 1 car.
(especially historic Silverstone and Monza)
After all, we already have the 98T. 8)

2+2=√16

Offline Dick Forrest

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Re: AC News
« Reply #673 on: April 23, 2015, 06:49:59 PM »
Sounds like we'll be getting Zandvoort in a couple of months anyway.

Not if we get immunized 1st..

You have got to stop bring back these exotic diseases Mr Threepwood. Worse still, you want to share.

Offline Bruce

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Re: AC News
« Reply #674 on: April 26, 2015, 10:24:12 AM »
Interesting with the success of AC's Cobra cars rFactor 2 is on the trail now...
http://www.virtualr.net/rfactor-2-ac-427-portugal-preview-video
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