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S9R5: Mugello post-race chat

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Offline Wally

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S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« on: November 10, 2015, 08:28:50 PM »
RACE RESULTS
SEASON STANDINGS

Round Points
Phil.8    71
Rolz    61
Bafs17    60.5
Freezer    59
EdWood    57.5
Bacchulum    57.5
StanDaam    54
Skaife    51
Marty    50
Mael    50
Jeremy    46.5
Matthew111    45
Grat    41.5
Gratulin    39.5
Wally    37
Guybrush Threepwood    34.5
Simone    34
Grubbet    32
Schmittez    29
Will    6.5

Congratulations to Phil.8 on the round win by quite some margin, and Freezer and Bacchulum on the race wins.

Season Podium
EdWood stretches his lead in the championship, with Guybrush dropping back after a poor round. Bacchulum has moved up into 2nd spot, with Skaife close behind.

1. EdWood, 248.5
2. Bacchulum, 237.5
3. Skaife, 234

Team Standings
Caterpillar Racing (Freezer and Skaife) lead by the narrowest of margins from Achilles Heels (Guybrush and Marty), only 0.5 points in front. Struggle Street Racing Crew are in 3rd place.

Ballast Changes

Race 1: Average lap time: 1:33.996

P1: Freezer (1:33.569, 0.426): 22 -> 33
P2: Mael (1:33.201, 0.794): 7 -> 27
P3: Simone (1:33.787, 0.208): 21 -> 26
P4: Matthew111 (1:33.540, 0.455): 133 -> 145
P5: Phil.8 (1:33.719, 0.276): 82 -> 89
P6: Bafs17 (1:33.300, 0.695): 36 -> 54
P7: Jeremy (1:33.902, 0.093): 111 -> 113
P8: EdWood (1:34.034, -0.039): 99 -> 98
P9: Skaife (1:34.157, -0.162): 76 -> 72
P10: Schmittez (1:35.277, -1.282): 10 -> 0
P11: Wally (1:32.679, 1.316): 2 -> 36
P12: Rolz (1:33.736, 0.259): 84 -> 91
P13: Grubbet (1:34.100, -0.105): 7 -> 4
P14: Guybrush Threepwood (1:34.368, -0.373): 176 -> 167
P15: Gratulin (1:34.307, -0.312): 40 -> 32
P16: StanDaam (1:34.090, -0.095): 72 -> 70
P17: Bacchulum (1:33.957, 0.038): 30 -> 31
P18: Grat (1:33.845, 0.150): 96 -> 100
P19: Marty (1:34.053, -0.058): 126 -> 125
P20: Will (1:38.117, -4.122): 96 -> 0

Race 2: Average lap time: 1:34.696

P1: Bacchulum (1:33.892, 0.804): 31 -> 51
P2: Phil.8 (1:34.534, 0.162): 89 -> 93
P3: Rolz (1:34.302, 0.394): 91 -> 101
P4: StanDaam (1:35.155, -0.459): 70 -> 59
P5: Bafs17 (1:35.657, -0.961): 54 -> 30
P6: Marty (1:34.696, 0.000): 125 -> 125
P7: EdWood (1:34.788, -0.092): 98 -> 96
P8: Freezer (1:33.698, 0.998): 33 -> 58
P9: Skaife (1:34.876, -0.180): 72 -> 67
P10: Grat (1:34.181, 0.515): 100 -> 113
P11: Gratulin (1:35.306, -0.610): 32 -> 17
P12: Mael (1:33.457, 1.239): 27 -> 59
P13: Jeremy (1:34.869, -0.173): 113 -> 109
P14: Wally (1:34.897, -0.201): 36 -> 31
P15: Grubbet (1:34.991, -0.295): 4 -> 0
P16: Matthew111 (1:34.489, 0.207): 145 -> 150
P17: Guybrush Threepwood (1:34.501, 0.195): 167 -> 172
P18: Schmittez (1:33.912, 0.784): 0 -> 20
P19: Simone (1:34.852, -0.156): 26 -> 22
 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 10:49:49 PM by Wally »
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Schmittez

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2015, 09:51:30 PM »
Q1: Qualified in 19th but didnt get a good lap in.

R1: managed to avoid all the L1 carnage and ended up in 14th and then there was another incident which put me up in to 9th was racing well only has 2 tiny little mistakes and that was it then T3 last lap managed to slide out and put it on the infield and droped back to 11th and hunted down the 2 that got in front of me but only just managed to pass Wally with his damage just before the line.

Q2: lost my 10KG of ballast and managed to put it in 4th and was on a good lap that I probably would of ended up second maybe first.

R2: got of the line well and almost got in to 1st before T1 but the gap wasn't quite big enough to squeeze through the 2 cars in front so I ended up settling down in 4th for the rest of the map and then again damn T3 came along and I looked it this time and got hit which damaged my rear spoiler extensively so I limped it back to the pits and got it repaired total time for that lap was about 5 minutes got back on the track and did another lap then came of around T6 I think it was and that was enough for me so I retired from the race.

Offline Matthew111

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 10:05:32 PM »
race 1: hapy with qual had a good battle with bafs and simone on the opening laps, once the dust settled i was 4th where i started fending phil off on the last lap 2 laps.

race 2: Again had a good qual with the heavy car lol and had a good start i think ending up 4th after a few spins in front of me but then on lap 2 cars started flying and my game disconnected... not sure why, it happened in race 1 qual too pretty dissapointing since things were looking pretty good.
do you even motorsports?

Rolz

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 10:27:09 PM »
R1 - Happy with qual, but just not enough track time with the weight and loose setup to compensate... came off, spun eventually finished somewhere 12-13...

R2 - happy with qual again, good start, got to 3rd T2 and held that for a while, couldn't catch Bachulum.... good pits but was 3rd again... Freezer just slowed right down... didn't change tires? got to 2nd, but Phil.8 got me right on the line... 0.006 between us... very cool.

Tough with 91kgs, but seems to be close up the front... well the ones that are well matched with ballast...
I feel for GB with that boat anchor attached.

Offline Freezer

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2015, 10:31:57 PM »
Well my car was a bit of a jet tonight.
Q1 Managed a 5th grid spot.
R1 During the first 2-3 laps I managed to pick off the guys in front and get a few second gap and from there it was just about keeping off the kerbs with Mael not far behind to take the win.
Q2 Small amount of extra weight and found myself in P2.
R2 Managed to hang it around the outside on T1 to grab the lead and then saw some carnage behind which jumped me a few seconds ahead. From there I extended it to about 6 seconds and was just doing very consistent laps until Lap 12. Dived into the pits and had the tiniest of brushed with the wall that I barely felt.  Came out and the front was understeering a lot and straight line had dropped.  From there I pushed it home with about 5 cars catching and passing.  On the last lap I was with Bacculum when one of us warped and we collided.  Thought I was going to be stuck in the sand but just got out and home.
Definitely a double podium gone begging tonight . . . but that's racing they say!

Offline Wally

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 11:13:29 PM »
Results in the first post.

As for me, another $@%$@#% night. In race 1, I qualified on pole with as good as no ballast (where I was doing pretty much the average time at Spa last round). I had the car set up very nicely, with quite a low ride height. As I said on TS, I raised the ride height by 1 cm all round so that I wouldn't get stuck in the gravel in case of an accident, as happened at Spa, ending my race. I tested it by driving into the gravel, and sure enough, where I had been bogged before, I could now drive out. But I also found that this cost me about 0.5 seconds in lap time with a higher ride height. I had set a good qualifying time with the low car, but I decided to stick with the raised car for the race, to avoid being bogged.

As a result, I was slower in the race. I got away well in pole position, but Freezer round me up on lap 4. As I was chasing him downhill coming into that long right hander, I got too close to the rear of his car, and locked the brakes avoiding an impact, and went off track to the left, dropping about 10 spots before I could rejoin safely. That was my own stupid mistake.

On the next lap though, I came across Grat's spun car and couldn't avoid hitting it. It gave me front aero damage, which cost me about 3 to 4 seconds a lap for the rest of the race. From there, I limped home to finish 11th, blowing my best chance for a win.

In race 2, I locked up again behind Skaife on turn 2 of the opening lap. On the slippery track, I skidded off into the gravel, leaving me close to the back of the field. Then on lap 2, Jeremy bumped me in the middle of turn 1, pushing me into Skaife who was re-entering after an off into the gravel. That gave me rear damage, which I pitted to repair, putting me a lap down already, so early in the race.

After that, I was keeping behind cars that were a lap up, even though I was faster, putting in good lap times. I was chasing Guybrush and Skaife for a while, but a lap down. Guybrush had a spin, so that was one car unwound, but I couldn't pass Skaife. I tried a few times to see if I could get a clean draft past him on the straight, but I wasn't going to try anything suicidal into turn 1 as I was under a blue flag. Eventually Skaife pitted, and I was clear to put in my fastest lap which was briefly the fastest lap of the race, until I had to pit myself. From there, it was a lonely run home.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline marty

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2015, 12:08:23 AM »
Race 1 was having a bit of fun but then got caught up in someone elses accident, I did well to avoid contact but in getting around the spun car on track ended up in the sand. Beached as next to Bacchulum as we both spun our wheels up and dug them in a bit deeper and needing to retire. Though I was having a fun battle I was more trying to keep the guys behind me then looking like passing Edwood ahead, it was a very close pack for the 5 or so laps so could have been an interesting finish.

Some screens from the start of race 1.





Here is the incident I had to avoid.



Then Parked next to Bacchulum as both our races were done.



Race 2 I messed up my first qualy run and in the end figured no point going hard as for 12th and I will just try start in last with a full tank and see how that works out. To my surprise I got a great start passing a few cars into t1 then got through all the carnage to be in 4th early, I was clearly slower then all those around me with a full tank and quite a bit of Ballast. I hoped to stay ahead of a few and then get some pace at the end to make a bit of a charge. Unfortunately made a silly error a few laps in and lost it into the gravel again, I managed to keep the car going but lost about 20 seconds on the adventure.

From there I just ran to the end of my fuel which was to lap 13 where I went for a quick stop and hoped to have some good pace. Just before the stop I had a good battle with Bacchulum but then got back a few spots on the stop. I put in a few quick laps and made some passes but ended up 24 seconds off the lead so the spin was quite costly in the end.

Here is the replay from race 2 as requested by Phil.

http://www.xgn.com.au/index.php?board=41.0


Offline StanDaam

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 08:28:57 AM »
Race1: Stoopid Stan!! Made it thru the first couple of corners, tippy toe, tippy toe, turn 3 I gassed it up on cold tires, round it goes... sorry Gratulin and 1 or 2 others...

Race2: Woot woot!! A whole race without breaking the balsa wood car!!  :P
Had a good race, came home in 4th, no great battles, watched Phil get further away, saved the team a bucket load of cash because I brought it home in pristine condition  :-X

Offline marty

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2015, 09:09:01 AM »
Here is a little video of the first 4 laps from race 1 until I got beached, I was Chasing Edwood and being chased by Jeremy. It was shaping up to be a nice battle but being beached sucks and ends a race with no contact.  :'(



[youtube]uzKD9Jv8p2Q[/youtube]

I also think GB is being a little hard done by the Ballast, also some people seem to be able to drop and gain. Such as Will who went from 95kg and then didnt run many laps but now has 0kg next round where he will easily dominate.

175kg is worth how many seconds? For me I think 125 was about 3 seconds at Mugello doing I think 1:30.5 with no ballast and best in practice before the race 1:33.4 but I didnt go as hard in the qualy as I didnt want to spin and get no time.

Race 1 GB vs Wally GB was 1.7 seconds slower with a net change of ballast between them for race 2 being 43kg. 43 kg isnt 1.7 seconds slower, race 2 he was .4 slower then Wally and in the end for next round he has gone back to 175kg with Wally at 31kg so net gain of 30kg to Wally who at 2kg was 1.7 seconds faster in race 1 to the ballast GB started this round in and starts the next round in less 1kg. That Id say conpared to Wally at Monza in race 1 GB will be about 1.4 seconds slower still in our renault powered redbulls vs those mercs up front.  ;D


Offline Wally

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2015, 09:46:03 AM »
Just look at the lap times compared to the averages. The while story is there.

I'm telling ya, raising the ride height stops the car from getting beached in the gravel. I tested it... low car, bogged, high car, could drive out. It's worth raising the ride height to mitigate the risk of getting beached. In my races, I was able to escape the gravel traps.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline grat

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2015, 09:56:50 AM »
Wally: is it easy for you to extract the best lap times for each quali in the season in a file? If so, we could (i) regress lap times on ballast with session fixed effects and (ii) do the same but adding driver fixed effects (of course, quadratic regs would probably be best). The first results would tell us whether the current ballast calculations are making us all equal (null hypothesis) or are favouring those with lower ballast too much (significant positive coefficient). Fixed effects would take off any effect of session grip, track, and so on. The second one would give us a measure of the effect of ballast separated from the ability of each driver (driver fixed effect would do that). This way we could have a precise measure of how much ballast to give (perhaps with a quadratic formula, as said before) after each competition. I am thinking of using quali times as they are less affected by traffic and damage, but of course one could also use each single race lap, controlling for lap number, position, distance from car in front/behind and--- if data are available---damage.

An example for the file would be something like

Driver ID.     Session #.     Best lap.     Ballast
15                3                   91.584        43

(notice I have already converted the lap times in seconds)   
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 10:00:46 AM by grat »

Offline marty

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2015, 10:03:48 AM »
I was able to get out of the sand on race 2 as I had some momentum when I went in, also as you said you can raise the ride height and give up .5 per lap well then Id be dead last lol so that's not much of an option. I didn't plan to go there and though race 2 I went in sand entirely my own fault with a loss of concentration, race 1 I had nowhere to go and got stuck just like Bacchulum did and probably most cares coming in backwards to that trap would. Maybe if I only had 2kg of Ballast I could have ran max ride height and still be fairly competitive but not with 126kg of ballast. ;)

It happens, just wrong place at the wrong time and Edwood got lucky to just get past but I think even you Wally ended up hitting Grats car getting damage which also ruined your race. So had I gone straight into Grat with a damaged car I would likely have come last, get stuck in the sand and pretty much the same result. Get lucky and get through like Edwood and Jeremy there and have a chance for a reasonable race finish. It was a very close pack so anyone slipping up ahead of us was always a big risk which there is not much you can do but it was fun while it lasted.

Offline marty

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2015, 10:10:47 AM »
Come to think of it as we get ballasted, by early pace you could plan this early in the season and set the car up extra safe then you would get your assist from the ballast and be able to run an easy to drive safe car all season at a competitive pace. Plan A as I did tried as hard as I could early with a fast setup then get ballast and be forced to extract every tenth out of the car each lap all season on the edge. If you take plan B safe option and cruise around you would be low weight and have a stable car with power on demand almost like kers or push to pass when needed and then strategically back off a little each lap to make sure you stay within your laptime quota and have a bit of buffer. :)

This would work If you run race 1 and sacrifice this a bit seeing as worst round is dropped anyway, I didn't run the first round but got ballasted anyway so a double disadvantage as did GB. However its fair we got ballast early as we would have dominated round 2 on no ballast but likely still would have only the same weights we have now.

Offline grat

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2015, 10:19:41 AM »
Come to think of it as we get ballasted, by early pace you could plan this early in the season and set the car up extra safe then you would get your assist from the ballast and be able to run an easy to drive safe car all season at a competitive pace. Plan A as I did tried as hard as I could early with a fast setup then get ballast and be forced to extract every tenth out of the car each lap all season on the edge. If you take plan B safe option and cruise around you would be low weight and have a stable car with power on demand almost like kers or push to pass when needed and then strategically back off a little each lap to make sure you stay within your laptime quota and have a bit of buffer. :)

This would work If you run race 1 and sacrifice this a bit seeing as worst round is dropped anyway, I didn't run the first round but got ballasted anyway so a double disadvantage as did GB. However its fair we got ballast early as we would have dominated round 2 on no ballast but likely still would have only the same weights we have now.

A little bit of gaming the system is acceptable: in the end, this is a sport. I can offer myself to do some bit of statistical analysis to get a better grasp of the numbers. Perhaps Wally has already done all that, and perhaps these numbers won't help us much, but at the bare minimum I am personally curious to see what is the actual impact of ballast on our performances.

Personally I am taking the ballast thing (also) as a badge of honor. I am still fairly new, and managing a 5th place in quali with 100kg makes me proud :)

Offline Simone

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Re: S9R5: Mugello post-race chat
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2015, 11:03:16 AM »
Race 1 was very noice!!   
Rce 2 caught repeatedly on someone else crap  and i retired,shame cause i wanted to race defensively and do well...but hey.....!!!



I had huge fun in race 1 passing these gentlemen ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

HAAA   forgot that i got a podium....whhooooo...hoooooo

..also we should stop complaining about the ballast,and make stories out o f it,,,just race guys and shut up!!!!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 11:09:26 AM by Simone »

 

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