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Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Apps => Topic started by: Phil on March 04, 2018, 01:18:43 PM

Title: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Phil on March 04, 2018, 01:18:43 PM
I'm not sure if you guys have noticed this app but it's bloody awesome. It's so easy now to set the correct camber for your tyres!!

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/camber-extravaganza.19703/

(https://i.imgur.com/mMGKESZ.jpg)

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CourteousSlimyCanvasback-size_restricted.gif)


Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Phil.8 on March 04, 2018, 01:25:53 PM
Yeah it is good, been using it a while now
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: grat on March 04, 2018, 01:26:23 PM
Had no idea. Is it working well for you? I don't think I'll be able to sue it right now, but will have a look in the future. Thank you.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Phil.8 on March 04, 2018, 01:29:35 PM
seems to work well,  I just was interested if I was in the ball park on cambers, turns out I have been fairly close on most cars just by feel, but its handy to know if you are close or not
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Phil on March 04, 2018, 03:38:34 PM
Is it correct to say, when you have set your camber correctly you can get onto the gas earlier then if you had a setup less optimal?
And how much does it help with regards to braking?
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Wally on March 04, 2018, 03:41:47 PM
Is it correct to say, when you have set your camber correctly you can get onto the gas earlier then if you had a setup less optimal?
And how much does it help with regards to braking?
The app really helps with maximising  lateral forces while cornering. The more you improve lateral grip, the more you reduce longitudinal grip. It's a compromise between the two.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 04, 2018, 03:46:39 PM
Has anyone successfully added a car?
I can't get this to work:
Quote
Adding any more cars follows the same pattern as tyres-data.json, for example a fictional Abarth 500 Stage 2 with Soft, Medium, and Hard slicks:

Code:
{
    "dallara_fx17": {
            "FRONT": {
            "SM": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.81}
        },
            "REAR": {
            "SM": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.81}
        }
    },
    "abarth500_s2": {
            "FRONT": {
            "S": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071},
            "M": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071},
            "H": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071}
        },
            "REAR": {
            "S": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071},
            "M": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071},
            "H": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071}
        }
    },
}
More examples can be found in the full `tyres-data.json` file.
No matter what name I try it always says unrecognized car. :'(
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Phil.8 on March 04, 2018, 04:05:41 PM
Yeah , I am too dumb to figure out how to add a car,  I tried with the caterham, 
and the more camber the worse the braking,  with my style I like to brake late so my cambers are usually bit less than optimal for cornering in a lot of cars
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Gratulin on March 06, 2018, 05:37:15 PM
Has anyone successfully added a car?
I can't get this to work:
Quote
Adding any more cars follows the same pattern as tyres-data.json, for example a fictional Abarth 500 Stage 2 with Soft, Medium, and Hard slicks:

Code:
{
    "dallara_fx17": {
            "FRONT": {
            "SM": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.81}
        },
            "REAR": {
            "SM": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.81}
        }
    },
    "abarth500_s2": {
            "FRONT": {
            "S": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071},
            "M": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071},
            "H": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071}
        },
            "REAR": {
            "S": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071},
            "M": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071},
            "H": {"DCAMBER_0": 1.2, "DCAMBER_1": -13.0, "LS_EXPY": 0.8071}
        }
    },
}
More examples can be found in the full `tyres-data.json` file.
No matter what name I try it always says unrecognized car. :'(
Content Manager adds it for you. Look in "tyres_data" and there should be a file "added-by-cm". In that file I have "bo_caterham_academy_rhd".
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 06, 2018, 06:11:31 PM
Certainly no file by that name.
If there was, I wouldn't have the problem of it saying "unrecognized car".
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Gratulin on March 06, 2018, 06:17:02 PM
Certainly no file by that name.
If there was, I wouldn't have the problem of it saying "unrecognized car".
are you using content manager?
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 06, 2018, 06:33:10 PM
Yep.
BUT, since I've paid for CM I keep getting a pop-up saying it can't update to the latest version.
I thought it was because the developer disappeared, as it did taking 3 weeks for my unlock key after donating.
I guess it's just another curse on my head though. :'(
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Gratulin on March 06, 2018, 08:06:45 PM
There is an option under Settings > Integrated > Camber Extravaganza: to "Add missing tyres information". If that's not there then you need latest version. If it isn't updating then there is a permissions issue stopping the update program from over writing the old program. I just deleted and re-installed to fix that.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: RussG on March 07, 2018, 05:13:03 PM
Yep.
BUT, since I've paid for CM I keep getting a pop-up saying it can't update to the latest version.
I thought it was because the developer disappeared, as it did taking 3 weeks for my unlock key after donating.
I guess it's just another curse on my head though. :'(

Where did you put CM? If you just dropped it on the Desktop like I did, then it won't auto update. You have to put it somewhere else where you have write permissions and put a shortcut on the desktop.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 07, 2018, 05:40:23 PM
The only thing on my desktop are shortcuts, I keep nothing else there.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 07, 2018, 05:46:53 PM
There is an option under Settings > Integrated > Camber Extravaganza: to "Add missing tyres information". If that's not there then you need latest version. If it isn't updating then there is a permissions issue stopping the update program from over writing the old program. I just deleted and re-installed to fix that.
Yeah it's an old version (real old)
The only things under Intergrated are Race Essentials, Sidekick and Real Head Motion.
It's still v0.8.1159.24085 (8/12/17) and I see they're up to 0.8.1606.32525 (7/3/18)
I've sent the developer a message so hopefully I get a reply soon. :-\
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: RussG on March 07, 2018, 06:01:31 PM
Just download the latest version and delete the old one. It's just a single EXE file.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Gratulin on March 07, 2018, 06:08:47 PM
Come on Bacc! You CAN have the latest version of at least one bit of software
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 07, 2018, 06:18:33 PM
No, I can't.
The latest d/l version is 0.8.1575.31871, so it's still not the latest (but it does have Camber interaction).
So unless the auto update starts working, I'll never have the latest version. ::)
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 07, 2018, 06:22:36 PM
Spoke too soon.
Now it won't connect to anything at all, so no online racing through CM. >:(

Now I need a shower and a beer, so I'll dick with it later.....
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 07, 2018, 07:20:52 PM
Reboot fixed it, although it still hasn't updated the pop-up no longer 'pops up'.
Enough about CM, back to the Extravaganza.

Does anyone else think it gives 'shallow' readings?
I set up the 599XX using it and the wheels are a lot more vertical than the default setup, very noticeable when you load my set whilst looking at the car's exterior.
The cambers ended up something like -0.3F and 0R (can't remember exactly) but most race cars I hear about are around the -2.0 degree mark front, if not a lot more (I think F1 are restricted to -3.5 and they're stiffly sprung so hardly roll at all).
BTCC and Supercars have visually large cambers, surely over -3.0 degrees.
And I was getting nice, green readings with no red.
Just seems a bit funky to me. :-\

The caveat is I've only used it on the Fezza, as all the other cars I tried were 'unrecognized' mods.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Wally on March 07, 2018, 08:26:29 PM
Reboot fixed it, although it still hasn't updated the pop-up no longer 'pops up'.
Enough about CM, back to the Extravaganza.

Does anyone else think it gives 'shallow' readings?
I set up the 599XX using it and the wheels are a lot more vertical than the default setup, very noticeable when you load my set whilst looking at the car's exterior.
The cambers ended up something like -0.3F and 0R (can't remember exactly) but most race cars I hear about are around the -2.0 degree mark front, if not a lot more (I think F1 are restricted to -3.5 and they're stiffly sprung so hardly roll at all).
BTCC and Supercars have visually large cambers, surely over -3.0 degrees.
And I was getting nice, green readings with no red.
Just seems a bit funky to me. :-\

The caveat is I've only used it on the Fezza, as all the other cars I tried were 'unrecognized' mods.
Dude, read this: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/camber-extravaganza-show-your-camber-in-real-time-v1-12-2017-02-12.43042/page-9#post-961633
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 07, 2018, 09:03:32 PM
Quote
And this is where AC fails to some extent, if you drive an race car where the camber should be in the range of 3.5 degree and you would
adjust it to 0.5 degree the tyre would be toast after half a lap. Even running 1 degree lower have big impact on tyre life and overheating.

This one reason why tuning an car in AC differ from real life tuning, and tools like this could help.
But as always, it's not as easy just to set an optimal value, it's always an compromise of several things.
I tend to agree with this bloke.
I believe your testing Wally, that it calculates the best camber for AC's algorithms, just that the ultimate outcome is non-realistic.
But this is a required limitation.
An F1 driver-in-the-loop sim requires the equivalent of 6 top end PC's just for the physics, which is what you need to calculate every compliance fully.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: RussG on March 07, 2018, 10:15:19 PM
It's still v0.8.1159.24085 (8/12/17) and I see they're up to 0.8.1606.32525 (7/3/18)

Where are you getting these version numbers from. Mine auto updates fine and it's 0.8.1575.31871. A manual check for updates finds nothing. The page that is linked on the CM "About" screen for "More Information" (http://acstuff.ru/app/ (http://acstuff.ru/app/)) has a download link to Content Manager (0.8.1575.31871).zip. So you are looking at unreleased versions.

Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 07, 2018, 10:30:55 PM
About/Release Notes

The Recent Changes button links me to a page that says this:

15 hours ago
0.8.1606.32525
Couple of UI bugfixes.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: RussG on March 07, 2018, 10:41:17 PM
Ah, OK.
Well I guess the latest changes haven't been released in a stable version yet.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Wally on March 08, 2018, 07:34:30 AM
Quote
And this is where AC fails to some extent, if you drive an race car where the camber should be in the range of 3.5 degree and you would
adjust it to 0.5 degree the tyre would be toast after half a lap. Even running 1 degree lower have big impact on tyre life and overheating.

This one reason why tuning an car in AC differ from real life tuning, and tools like this could help.
But as always, it's not as easy just to set an optimal value, it's always an compromise of several things.
I tend to agree with this bloke.
I believe your testing Wally, that it calculates the best camber for AC's algorithms, just that the ultimate outcome is non-realistic.
But this is a required limitation.
An F1 driver-in-the-loop sim requires the equivalent of 6 top end PC's just for the physics, which is what you need to calculate every compliance fully.
That could well be true. I don't know if this is a peculiarity of the 599 - I haven't repeated the experiment with something like a GT3 car, say.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 09, 2018, 11:31:16 PM
Seems to be just another reason to doubt Ferrari's engineering skills. :P
Most of my "guestimates" in other cars (roadster/indy, Buick/bristol, F2, F79 & 72D) proved pretty close.
And there was a definite improvement with 'green' cambers so the app is an essential setup tool for me now. 8)
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Wally on March 10, 2018, 11:59:23 AM
So now that you're optimised for lateral grip, I'll be able to brake deeper into the corner and pass you. Bwah ha haaaaa.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 10, 2018, 12:20:53 PM
Everyone brakes later than me anyway.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: buellersdayoff on March 14, 2018, 11:41:11 AM
With this app, are you guys that run a low negative camber eg 1.8F 1.5R, getting a fair amount of red flashing on the tyre model? I haven't used the graph thing yet, but during my brief testing I tried to set it up so that I had almost zero red, which meant more aggressive negative camber. Is this what you guys are trying to achieve or do you compromise, a bit of red to get more green? Also at this track curb hopping seemed beneficial which also meant way more red and equally more negative camber to compensate. With my sway bars set to something like 14F 4R I needed camber about -2.8F and -1.8 to avoid red while curb hopping, but of course straight line braking suffered. I ended up racing with 1.9F 1.2R (I think). What you guys think? It's all compromise for sure, but you know...how much
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Phil.8 on March 14, 2018, 11:48:24 AM
I was running -1.8F and -1.0R,  but I do prefer a bit less than ideal camber
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Wally on March 14, 2018, 11:59:21 AM
For this track, I focussed just on the slow corner leading onto the fast back straight, and optimised the outer (left) cambers. How well that worked, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: buellersdayoff on March 14, 2018, 12:06:00 PM
I was running -1.8F and -1.0R,  but I do prefer a bit less than ideal camber
So you are getting a fair amount of red to get more green when pushing hard? A lot of red while curb hopping? Just trying work out this app and how you guys read/use it
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 14, 2018, 12:41:52 PM
I found that the camber changes through the corner, depending on suspension compression under braking or acceleration.
What I therefore do is determine where I need the grip more, into or out of the corner, and adjust accordingly.
I ignored the readings while curb hopping as it's very transient and I'm very inconsistent, so it was never the same on different laps.
In general, though, I try to avoid red.
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: buellersdayoff on March 15, 2018, 08:42:33 PM
Thank you, I'll spend some more time with it
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 15, 2018, 10:38:07 PM
But maybe I'm wrong. :-X
This data (the bar graph) suggests under cambered is better than over cambered, so avoid blue at all costs.

(https://i.imgur.com/cu2tWCX.jpg)
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: buellersdayoff on March 28, 2018, 12:36:39 PM
But maybe I'm wrong. :-X
This data (the bar graph) suggests under cambered is better than over cambered, so avoid blue at all costs.

(https://i.imgur.com/cu2tWCX.jpg)
Thanks for the tips, the car felt pretty good this week, I set it up with as much green as possible while cornering which in turn gave the highest g forces. I think it was about -1.8F -0.3R. Sway bar changes affected this marginally also (more or less dynamic camber).
Title: Re: Camber Extravaganza 2.1
Post by: Bacchulum on March 28, 2018, 05:50:02 PM
You'll also find (in cars with the option) that spring, ride height and weight (more fuel or ballast) will also change the camber. ;)
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