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A proposal for discussion - more grip

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Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2015, 09:49:05 AM »
What's the decision for this Tuesday? I'm still practising on the standard grip track. Should I change? I have found it takes a bit to adjust back to the lower grip track so would like to stick to one track version for this week - hard enough at the moment for me to come to "grips" with the racing in these after cars!

No, we won't try this this Tuesday. It's too late. I might get it ready for the following round at Imola.

So, to be clear:
Tuesday race at Nurburgring wil be at normal grip.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2015, 10:10:52 AM »
I just did a few Nurb laps on 110% grip, and then went to do a few 100% grip laps (I did a 1:56.9 in the LaFerrari, #12/70 on RSR). I gotta say, 100% grip feels odd to me after 110. Sliding (controlled) everywhere, slippery... it doesn't feel as much like rubber on the road as it does at 110% grip. Maybe that's what driving a LaFerrari on the edge feels like. It's sure not what me driving a LaFerrari in real life would feel like.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Simone

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2015, 01:31:43 PM »
Exactely Wally you,me,and the rest of us here have zero idea how some racing or grand turismo sports car  feel like in real life.Especially during a race,a tough one, i have zero idea and thats why i call this and other sims just a game.But i am ready to try whatever,let us know before the championship start of any change   but..... :-[

Offline Matthew111

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2015, 01:44:02 PM »
Another thing to cosider is these cars are still on road tyres albeit very good tyres but still they wont have that nice bite on the edge that a full slick would give.
do you even motorsports?

Offline Bafs17

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2015, 01:54:38 PM »
I think I understand your point about the feel and immersion and about making the game true to the way you perceive your own driving limits due to fear etc. However, I believe that this is relative to the individual and any changes made will reflect that person's experience. For example because you have had the good fortune of driving a race car on track, you have the perception of to little grip in AC because you were driving within a car's limits in real life. If you were even more fortunate to drive a car on track more often, your confidence may grow, therefore you will be going closer to the car's limits making AC more realistic (or closer to your reality) because your experience has broadened.

So what I'm saying is that if changes are being made they will likely reflect a person's experience. The only way, for me at least, to keep it 'real' is to have that 'mathematical' accuracy that AC currently provides. Your experience for example does not match mine (I haven't driven a race car on track) nor will it match the experience that Marty may have (I think he has often). I believe that this is what 'simcade' tries to emulate.

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2015, 02:41:04 PM »
All good points.

I always have the feeling in the back of my mind when playing AC: ”why are these cars so slippery? Surely they don't feel so slippery in real life.”

Let's just try it in the Imola round, and then see what people think. For me already at Nurburgring, it feels like more fun. You don't have to be quite so careful with the car, but it can still break away. But maybe that's me venturing into simcade laziness :)
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Matthew111

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2015, 03:18:12 PM »
I think this vid gives a good indication of how a stock p1 behaves on the limit, fair bit of movement on the edge. In the end of the day as i said they still use road tyres and are road cars so they are never going to handle and grip as good as a gt3 car for example but for what they are they are damn good.

do you even motorsports?

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2015, 03:29:32 PM »
I think this vid gives a good indication of how a stock p1 behaves on the limit, fair bit of movement on the edge. In the end of the day as i said they still use road tyres and are road cars so they are never going to handle and grip as good as a gt3 car for example but for what they are they are damn good.


Gee, the AC sound is not too bad, compared to that vid, is it.

In the game, we're using Trofeo slicks though.

Hear what the driver said? "even when you do get excited, it's just really manageable... you'd think it might try to kill you every time, but it's just awesome - it's easy to drive." and that's (probably) not even on slicks. Does AC feel like that to you? It doesn't to me. MOAARRRR GRIP.... :)
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline marty

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2015, 03:33:13 PM »
There is always Chris Harris who likes to push cars in his tests in a Laferrari

[youtube]GaAQW8lVaRM[/youtube]

And in the P1

[youtube]ufVQ-UKZbro[/youtube]


Offline Bird

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2015, 04:18:59 PM »
I always have the feeling in the back of my mind when playing AC: ”why are these cars so slippery? ...”

That's because you haven't driven iRacing on the old tyre model :D

And I'm only half joking.  It was a fucking ice racing, and that's what many people called it, too.

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2015, 06:02:45 PM »
Yeah, I've heard about ice-racing, but never experienced it.

The key point of my grip discussion is to make the game feel more like YOU being on track, not someone like Chris Harris. How the car would feel like for you, Mr. Joe Average.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Simone

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2015, 06:04:38 PM »
I never said this but i do not like the slippery situation in AC,it got worse that Iracing thats for sure,but lests try to edit the grip level then,i do not mind,actually i will do some tests myself.
how do i edit the friction on a track?   steam>steamapps>common>assetto corsa>content>tracks>data>surfaces?

btw: i still play iracing everyweek so i can compare,of course different car different feeling but the trend is that,,,,slippery....massive understeer even at relatively slow speeds

« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 06:08:56 PM by Simone »

Offline Matthew111

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2015, 06:53:51 PM »
I think this vid gives a good indication of how a stock p1 behaves on the limit, fair bit of movement on the edge. In the end of the day as i said they still use road tyres and are road cars so they are never going to handle and grip as good as a gt3 car for example but for what they are they are damn good.


Gee, the AC sound is not too bad, compared to that vid, is it.

In the game, we're using Trofeo slicks though.

Hear what the driver said? "even when you do get excited, it's just really manageable... you'd think it might try to kill you every time, but it's just awesome - it's easy to drive." and that's (probably) not even on slicks. Does AC feel like that to you? It doesn't to me. MOAARRRR GRIP.... :)

Haha yeah i was going to point out the sounds too! really good job on those.

Nah the Trofeo is still a gooved tyre its just a semi slick, the car in that vid would have been on the stock pzeros (like the ferrari) so the trofeo is just a step above those. Which if you watch this comparison you will see the difference at about 11.30 mins in lol.

I dunno each to there own really i find it manageable like he said especially for a 900hp car but that could just be my style of driving. Im curious to try 110% as i think it will simulate the car on full slicks which would be cool.

do you even motorsports?

Offline Freezer

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2015, 07:22:32 PM »
I'm with Wally on how it feels.  I took my WRX to a track day once and all I focused on was how hard I could push it, not when will the grip kick in.  Also did a V8race experience and the grip blew the wrx away.  I also expect that if I splashed out 500k on a Ferrari  then it would have an incredible level of performance.
Then there is AC..  My theory is that they go and out and very accurately replicate the specs of a real car BUT in AC I am sitting in an office at a computer so many of the forces and feedback is not there.  So it is likely that the game should not be so accurate in order to compensate for those missing effects and give a true experience.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 10:27:14 PM by Freezer »

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2015, 08:12:26 PM »
Yeah, that's it I reckon Freezer. AC probably models the maths really well, but not the experience. I've already written heaps on my reasoning; no need to repeat it.

Simone, you can edit all the frictions in the surfaces.ini, but take a backup of the file first. You'll need to put it back afterwards so you don't get checksum mismatches online. I increased the friction by 10% (multiply by 1.1). So 0.8 becomes 0.88, 0.97 becomes 1.07 etc.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

 

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