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Ballast

Author Topic: Ballast  (Read 39074 times)

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2015, 05:58:41 AM »
I calculated that 10 kg is worth around 2 tenths of a second in these around here.  But it's all compounded by fuel and grip.

Im really loving these cars.  So much fun and a nice change from the docile tin tops.

One thing I didn't check was DRS.  Is this working and in use?  I don't recall seeing DRS in the electronics app.  The devs may have disabled it.

Offline grat

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2015, 07:39:57 AM »
Hi GB: virtuasimulazioni website says they will only implement DRS on the FR3.5 when and if we have full DRS zones implementation on Assetto Corsa. So: it is not available now but will probably be in future updates.

As for the 2 tents per 10 kg. It is probably not linear, but in the ranges I could experiment with, I had something like a second every 35kg, so more like 3 tenths per 10kg. But yeah, we are around those numbers.

I have also noticed suspensions setup changes a lot. With 126kg I run fairly hard suspensions (just a tad below default, but with softer front dumpers). But if I run the same setup on 0kg, I skip like a stone throughout most of the hangar straight. Also, gearing might be different, as top speed is obviously quite different.

This brings another little issue: if we change ballast for every race (as opposed to every round) it will be harder for everybody to have a decently balanced car.

Wally: please do not take this as a criticism of the method itself. You are clearly putting some clever effort into it. But I do agree with Marty that ballast should balance the race and not invert the results. To make a silly example: a perfect ballast would make GB .8 of a sec faster than me instead of 2 seconds, leaving Marty, Matthew, and Jeremy in between and giving me a chance to battle for the podium at most venues. As it is, it risks making me fastest by a second or slower by 5 seconds depending on who had a clean lap in the previous race.  I am sure you are right that the edges will smooth out after a few rounds, but perhaps a smoother (or stepped) implementation as you suggested in the last posts might work better.

Offline Wally

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2015, 08:13:14 AM »
Guys.... I ran 15 seasons of netKar league races using this ballast method. 15 seasons. Hundreds and hundreds of races. Trust me, if there were unfairness or anomalies, I and the other racers would have seen them.

Don't be so quick to judge, after one round. Theorising is wonderful... but there's no substitute for seeing what actually happens.

Nothing is inverted. The goal is to bring people to the middle lap time. It compresses, not inverts.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Phil.8

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2015, 10:48:44 AM »
wow 15 seasons,  thats impressive,  Wish I had discovered netKar when it was popular
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older

Offline Freezer

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2015, 11:55:44 AM »
Guys.... I ran 15 seasons of netKar league races using this ballast method. 15 seasons. Hundreds and hundreds of races. Trust me, if there were unfairness or anomalies, I and the other racers would have seen them.

Don't be so quick to judge, after one round. Theorising is wonderful... but there's no substitute for seeing what actually happens.

Nothing is inverted. The goal is to bring people to the middle lap time. It compresses, not inverts.
Im with Wally.  Having been one of those who ran most of the NetKar seasons it works just fine.

Offline Joe

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2015, 12:07:36 PM »
That's a lot of seasons! Some of you guys have been doing this a long time huh!

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2015, 01:05:08 PM »
The funny thing is that it feels like I only just started sim racing properly not long ago, but then I realise that AC was released 2+ years ago... I think.

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2015, 01:11:32 PM »
the discussion is healthy and I think we all want the same end point... lets see how tonight goes!

Offline Simone

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2015, 01:40:16 PM »
For  me ballast is crap.are we serious enough not to use it? Honestly,do not care about it but the reason why i do not like it  is that i feel unconfortable(highly) being ahead of guybrush,or jeremy,or Edwood or whoever just because they got penalized....no is not for me.

The same setup(fixed setup) bring the field closer already,and i like it.


It goes without saying that ballast or no tonight i will get a podium.......fuck ye!!!!!   :P :P :P :P :P :P :P


 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 01:52:47 PM by Simone »

Offline Wally

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2015, 01:58:03 PM »
That's a lot of seasons! Some of you guys have been doing this a long time huh!
And rFactor before that and GT Legends before that. I started league racing around 2006. Can't you tell by how good I am? And some go back further than that.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Bacchulum

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2015, 05:15:54 PM »
Guys.... I ran 15 seasons of netKar league races using this ballast method. 15 seasons. Hundreds and hundreds of races. Trust me, if there were unfairness or anomalies, I and the other racers would have seen them.

Don't be so quick to judge, after one round. Theorising is wonderful... but there's no substitute for seeing what actually happens.

Nothing is inverted. The goal is to bring people to the middle lap time. It compresses, not inverts.
Im with Wally.  Having been one of those who ran most of the NetKar seasons it works just fine.
And I'll add my support to that as well.

2+2=√16

Offline Freezer

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2015, 06:40:32 PM »
That's a lot of seasons! Some of you guys have been doing this a long time huh!
And rFactor before that and GT Legends before that. I started league racing around 2006. Can't you tell by how good I am? And some go back further than that.
I think I started not long after that.   Why aren't we at the front by now Wally..??

Offline Wally

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2015, 06:42:03 PM »
That's a lot of seasons! Some of you guys have been doing this a long time huh!
And rFactor before that and GT Legends before that. I started league racing around 2006. Can't you tell by how good I am? And some go back further than that.
I think I started not long after that.   Why aren't we at the front by now Wally..??

Too much time to reinforce bad habits. That's my excuse, anyway.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline grat

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2015, 09:10:21 PM »
Wally: as I said, I did not mean to criticize the method (or you, of course). And I am completely sure you know what you are talking about when you say it will smooth out pretty soon. I just saw some glitches in these first races and thought to share with you so you can make the most informed plan.

Example today: I started race 1 and as soon as I thought the lap 1 mess was ending, the driver ahead of me lifted (or braked) at Maggots (!). So of course I ended up rear-ending him, losing the front wing downforce, and crashing at the next corner. This suggests that although the pace was similar between me and him, the lines and braking points were so different that it might get dangerous.

I wish you understand I am in no way criticizing the organization. Of course I am disappointed, but not for the result, but because I really enjoy driving in this league. I really look forward to it every week, and it is a testament of how well it is organized.

Now back for race 2.

Offline Wally

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Re: Ballast
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2015, 11:33:24 PM »
That's something you have to learn with ballast. You have to allow more braking room for a heavy car in front, as their braking distance is increased. It pays to keep half an eye on who's quite heavy.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

 

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