[Phil.8]

is it just me or does it seem like less and less are playing, especially after project cars came out

http://steamcharts.com/app/244210

http://steamcharts.com/app/234630

[marty]

Numbers always drop and then pick up on the next update then will drop back down again. When 1.2 comes out all the regulars will have a go and if server side has substantial improvements it may keep more around but still many just try anything for a few weeks after an update then move on.

Sure Pcars has taken some away as many have both though I have not even tried that in MP after seeing how mp works and the fact the game doesnt much for me in a driving sense. There are those few that hang around all the time but these arent as common even tuesday nites have been dwindling a bit.

1.2 is meant to have some interesting server side improvements so it wont get any worse after that, how will it stay long term who knows. With regular DLC's and pcars not quite turning out to be what many had hoped I think there will still be quite a bit of interest in AC. Iracing is also pushing ahead with that cool new real track feature but Im not really interested in their pricing structure and forced mp setup season along with forced overpriced content purchases.

[Gratulin]

This gives me an excuse to spout my theory of multiplayer crowd behaviour

All the traditional multiplayer systems are server based rather than people based.

You are presented with a list of servers that are 90% empty, 90% of the time. Players are forced to wander around these servers looking for a race. The total number of wandering players can be quite high. The percentage of these players who actually get to enjoy a race is, however, extremely small.

What is needed is a system that provides these players with a way of connecting with similar players more efficiently. Leagues provide one such method. Marty has provided another method.

What AC should provide is a lobby that allows players to know when races will be held and whether or not it is the level and/or style of race in which they would like to participate. The lobby should show if players who you already know will be competing.

I know that I often would like to participate in a race or two in the evening but but there are only empty servers. Subsequently I find that others from XGN have also been looking for a race or two during the same evening. AC should address this market.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

I just filter by public server only then sort by ping then look down until there is a server with quite a few in it.  Rarely is there not at least 2 or 3, even if they are in another country.

What Kunos need to do is make the net code better so it's easier to race people overseas.  I have absolutely no doubt it has become worse since the update in March/April.  Even on a Tuesday night I see a lot more warping than I used to.

[Rolz]

I just filter by public server only then sort by ping then look down until there is a server with quite a few in it.  Rarely is there not at least 2 or 3, even if they are in another country.

What Kunos need to do is make the net code better so it's easier to race people overseas.  I have absolutely no doubt it has become worse since the update in March/April.  Even on a Tuesday night I see a lot more warping than I used to.

The other question though is, has Netflix played a part in impacting internet performance here in Aus?

I have found usually if I linger on one of Marty's servers it slowly fills up... that's on a weekend
Weekdays, if I have a day off, I see tumbleweeds cruise past on the server/plays lists...

There have been 2 new driving games come out so they will impact numbers, but I'm hoping they will come back to AC with the quality game it is... over some Eye candy new stuff recently out...

[Gratulin]

The net code quality and Netflix theory all may be playing a factor. In addition, after my fiasco on Tuesday I have now turned off ALL Python apps and will be playing completely RAW from now on to see if that helps.

[Wally]

I'm not generally one to go looking for pickup races. I never have been, in any sim. Just one oir two league nights and a bit of practice in between is enough for me. But maybe that's exactly because of Gratulin's point. The lobby is usually an empty wasteland.

Although I don't like iRacing's pricing model, hats off to them for trying to organise and structure the online experience.

There's always people who will check out a game out of curiosity while it's new, like people are doing with Dirt Rally for example, before they drift off to the ”next big thing”. The numbers that stick behind and play a sim regularly are always going to be smaller. I'm certainly in that crowd. I played netKar for years with about 12 or so guys racing the same 8 or so cars over and over, because it felt so good. I prefer to just find a good feeling sim and stick with it.

[marty]

I just filter by public server only then sort by ping then look down until there is a server with quite a few in it.  Rarely is there not at least 2 or 3, even if they are in another country.

What Kunos need to do is make the net code better so it's easier to race people overseas.  I have absolutely no doubt it has become worse since the update in March/April.  Even on a Tuesday night I see a lot more warping than I used to.

The funny thing is I think the netcode is more solid against OS people then many locals. Not sure if you noticed that 2 lap video I posted at nords running against a 370 ping from europe. I also ran on aloog servers and had no issues with much the same results as when racing a solid os connection on my servers.

It seems the netflix issue and many aussie connections still degraded at peak times have most issues. I dont think its really the netcode getting worse but aussie connections getting worse.

Im sure there is room for improvement with netcode to try to deal with packet loss better. But still it seems its still nearly always a client side issue. I was on some other servers that fully shat themselves and this can happen if the server cant handle the traffic or cpu is overloaded.

Still nearly all cars I have seen warp has been when one car has had a climbing ping and its only been that car. It can even be very low pings of 10 going to 20 that warp as joes was the other day. Its clearly not ping related but quality of connection.

Higher ping just adds a bit of lag and its amazing you can even race people with 350 pings so the netcode is quite good there. Its just the unstable connections tend to do a little jitter or a big massive warp.

[Gratulin]

Guybrush's method of filtering to find an active server should be the only lobby in my opinion. The lobby should simply list scheduled races and allow people to register their intention to join that race. That way when a player wants a game they can see what races are being run and who is currently participating. Add the ability to assign safety and performance points to drivers and the ability for a server to define safety and performance criteria to the races being scheduled and you have a workable system. Oh, that is iracing!!!

However, you don't need go to the extent of iracing to achieve this.

AC already has a list of licensed drivers. The lobby only needs to not register servers but have the servers register races instead. Each registered race in the server definition file would have a time and date or simply "every day on the hour" etc. each registered race would define a driver registration criteria - minimum safety rating, minimum performance rating, pre-registered league member etc. this would all be defined by the server and then registered with the AC lobby. Once a server has registered with the lobby it can then be shutdown but AC would retain the lobby registration information. The lobby would then monitor the time the server was scheduled to be activated and flag 'server up' when available.

A driver would be able to pull up the lobby and see a list of races they are already booked for eg, Tuesday XGN league, Thursday XGN Cup, Friday casual races. Other races being held during the next hour or so would also be listed showing entry criteria (or prefiltered to only eligible races) and already registered drivers. Players could also add other players they have enjoyed racing with to the race selection criteria. This would gather all those tumbleweeds into the most suitable races.

All this could be done by AC within the current lobby framework by simply removing the list of empty servers and adding the driver and race registration system.

[marty]

I dont see why people all want to remove empty servers. I search by server name,  by clients or ping if I want to see others closer. Running an empty server you can jump in and others may join then more may join and eventually it becomes full. If nobody sees empty servers how does the first person join as there wont be a second if there is nobody in first.

I always see people complain about lack of combinations being used but then these people always choose the same combo. So they are part of their own problem and honestly for me I choose combinations mostly to get more serious guys in and avoid the one that will fill with idiots within minutes.

It would be ideal  if there were more people in the servers but id rather have 5 to 10 reasonabke guys in then 24 with 15 keyboard drivers or blind freddies.

Ive even put up combos that were requested kept them up for nearly a week and nobody runs a single lap not even the person requesting it. If they dont get into the empty server first and everyone else doesnt look at empty servers then there is no point even running a server.

[Gratulin]

Marty, this is the point. It's like restaurants. People go to already full restaurants or known restaurants. If you don't know a restaurant and it is empty you generally won't go in. I generally will only do one or two races. If I get rammed I just leave and go practise for Tuesday or Thursday. I have definitely joined your already active server and had good races. But I am not going to spend enough time in a server to attract other drivers. Having said that I have gone into empty restaurants, had very good meals and then discovered that other diners have arrived. Maybe we broke the ice?

[marty]

One bonus with an empty server is that you know there arent any idiots in there yet, join a full open server even one of mine and if you dont like being wrecked best to avoid those. The pass servers are much better but get less people so its basically lose lose for people with that mentality in casual mp unfortunatly.

Also I found the biggest hazard guys also only join close to full servers and those that want clean races do the same. Main reason I started servers is to be able to have casual racing with other reasonable guys. Keeping open servers they can at times be amazingly good and others it becomes a nightmare. Definatly having the ban hammer option makes it more useable but still there is a never ending supply of people that seem to have no clue or are purely there to try cause chaos.

The white list idea Kunos guys have shown some interest in and as they have started running official servers too asking for some help with server admins of current servers.

I did suggest a basic license system where people set a laptime and get a rating such as gold silver bronze in the sp achievements. Then allow server admins to choose what level of driver they want in their servers.

Even if not a global thing just allowing people to have their own qualy type server giving access without needing a pass would be great. Laptimes dont always indicate fair drivers but generally anyone within say 4 seconds can get around the track at a reasonable level.

My qualy server has this at 6 seconds and people with the pass have rarely caused any issues unlike in the open servers. If Gold, Silver and Bronze was 2, 4, 6 seconds on a regular gp length track then id most lukely still jeep it open for all that have a pass.

You could run some higher level servers but with numbers in Oz and guys that arent a hazard are fine to race. I think in xgn the spread is only 2 or 3 seconds in races if in even cars.

Main thing that needs to be filtered out are those raw beginners that teally need to learn to get around a track with some control before jumping into mp. No issues having servers for all but I wouldnt waste my time in the servers full of kb guys and those that cant get around monza 66 for example as they cant learn the turns.

1.2 and beyond will improve this in some ways surely but how far and what build who knows. Also having a moddable server setup as has been rumoured will let all the clever modders try things kunos simply dont have the time for.

[Phil.8]

Interesting points Gratulin and marty,  I like the idea of a License system  ,  need an app that records offs like iracing , e.g 1x penalty point for a wheel off 2x for 2  etc  4x for all off 5x for hitting things or others.    we could do slightly opposite though   with 0 being very safe and the higher you go the unsafer you are.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Joining an empty server is fine if you don't mind circling by yourself for a while,  but more often than not no one else joins.  I've done a few half hour stints on my own waiting for others but it's a waste of time - especially when there is another combo you like with people racing in it,  so now the only time I join in empty server is if it's to practice for a Tuesday night race. . It's also a pain in the arse looking through hundreds of empty servers.

That is why not many people will see passworded servers, and if you want to get them known and have more people join, making them public is the best idea.  Just got to be vigilant with the odd wrecker or inexperienced racer, bbut there seems to be less and less of the wrecker types, especially when you put a mod up. 

The public admin system as opposed to iRacing system is good in that you can start, restart and change a race combo whenever you want. . With I racing if you got hit or made a mistake you'd have to wait another hour to try again.  But then the bonus is that you get more organised and proper racing every hour. . I personally prefer the public admin system, and if they had some sort of safety rating and friends list I think that would do the trick.

Maybe what they need is a system where you can register your interest in a server while playing on another or off line and if more than x people register interest it gives you all an alert asking if you want to join and if enough people hit yes it throws you all in that server.

[Gratulin]

It's really waiting for one of the sim developers to 'get it' and then really revolutionize public multiplayer. Whoever gets this right will take over the market imho.