Xtreme Gaming Network

S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat

Author Topic: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat  (Read 36036 times)

Offline Shameless_1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2017, 02:52:36 PM »

Hey Des, don't give up because of me mate. I know you are struggling with chronic back issues and pain killers. I have raced with you long enough that to know that you don't "dive bomb" on purpose. You were just having a bad night.

Nah, it's not because of you. Just a lot going on in my personal life that is interfering with everything offline and online and being drugged up has just made it worse.  Last night felt like a withdrawal because I hadn't taken any pain killers for 2 nights. 


Phil, racing is frustrating at the best of times, only have to watch the v8 supercars to see how bad some drivers get dealt in racing.

This car is foreign to me as I'm used to racing GT3/2 and road cars. I'm not the only one finding it difficult/tricky to come to terms with. With this there is bound to be stuff ups more than cars we've raced before.

I'm divided when it comes to Lap 1. If I play it safe and hang back a little, everyone pushes and shoves their way in. If I keep it tighter I'm more prone to be in or cause an incident.  Hopefully now with ballast across both races people carrying it will have more consistency and less incidents.

I think next race I should just play "All By Myself" on repeat.... 
Race 1: Loneliest: Shameless (avg total gap in front and behind 27.82 secs)
Race 2: Loneliest: Shameless (avg total gap in front and behind 18.85 secs)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 04:56:02 PM by Shameless_1 »
--- A quitter never races and a Racer never quits. ---

Offline grat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 16
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2017, 05:18:49 PM »
ps. Has the 10 second cut penalties been applied Wally?
Yep, you can see it in the race results.
But it shows a penalty to me too, even if I did not have 4 cuts...

EDIT: indeed you gave me 28 points (5th). I thought it was penalty at the 4th cut (that's what the app shows). For example, Nith (7th) has 3 cuts as well, but no penalty, as it should be.
Yep, something is not working right. Wally.... Ehm... has 3 cuts and no penalty too. While Simone has 3 cuts and a penalty.

I want my points back!!!! ;) 8)
It's definitely 4 cuts and you get a penalty. You can see it in the warning count in the app. You can be on 3/3 warnings, and the next cut gets you a penalty. The log parser might not be displaying the cuts right. From memory, I think the 4th cut isn't recorded in the server log as a cut, but as a penalty for cutting. I could tidy that up in the results.
Ok, so basically you are saying the log is wrong and I did have 4 cuts. It's possible, as I had a pair of offs at some point when I lost the lead, and then I had a long at the chicane, so probably that's it. But I'll keep an eye on you ;)

Offline Wally

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11033
  • Karma: 152
  • AC Admin
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2017, 05:21:39 PM »
Regarding PLP how about rather than 3+1 offs equals a penalty, make it three offs at the same section of the race track? Indicating that you are doing something consistently wrong rather than just a bunch of slight mistakes, half of which are often not your own fault!

[Or how about we just turn penalties off? If I want to stay between the lines I'd play Tennis]
PLP is a consistent set of rules that everyone has to play by. You get plenty of opportunities to learn where you might get busted for exceeding track limits.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline marty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3747
  • Karma: -63
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2017, 06:03:37 PM »

Regarding Track Limits how about rather than 3+1 offs equals a penalty, make it three offs at the same section of the race track? Indicating that you are doing something consistently wrong rather than just a bunch of slight mistakes, half of which are often not your own fault!

Track limits has only ever been a later day problem. First in cheating in Sims and then in F1. Our league doesn't and I can't see it ever having a cheating problem and as for F1, seriously, has ANYTHING they have done ever made sense.

With track limits though if they are off then its simply open to abuse. With defined track limits then the race is to see who is fastest around the defined track not who makes their own fastest layout.  ;)

Also PLP does have a warning system if you have an off and see its still red before re entering the track you will get a cut. If you slow down a bit more before re-entering it wont count as a cut. Also trying to race with someone that cant stay on the black stuff makes it much more likely a pass will end in a crash as they arent really in control. Many track days I did 2 tyres off was a warning flag and second offence end of session, 4 tyres off at any point unless going to avoid a car stopped on track was instant black flag and end of your session. This was so people try to maintain reasonable control to not be a hazard to everyone else on the track.

I keep an eye on my cuts during a race and if for some reason I am high I will just back off to avoid getting another. This also means that you need to pick a line and take as much risk on track limits as you can consistantly pull off.

If your regularly going off track then by simply backing off and staying on the black stuff you will likely gain consistancy and overall race pace.

I think not enforcing track limits turns the racing into a bit of a joke, better drivers could easily exploit limits and gain 2 seconds per lap at most tracks with only minor cuts or simply over commiting to the entry knowing that running wide or off track will cost you no time.

Get and older style track with grass and gravel off track the linits arent as much of an issue, most modern tracks they are very open to abuse with no penalty for a mistake.

This is one reason I really like proper old school street circuits. Where the track limits are defined by solid walls, there like all tracks using as much road as possible is the fastest way around but use 1cm too much and the race is over.

Even PLP is really quite soft and you need to be pushing linits pretty hard or well off track to get called. The simple way to look at it is you wont ever get a plp inside the white lines.  :)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 06:07:58 PM by marty »

Offline grat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 16
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2017, 06:11:55 PM »
Agreed: track limits are a good thing and it's nice to be forced to respect them. Of course PLP cannot be perfect, as it is an automatic system. But 4 cuts in a race of 14 laps means plenty of freedom to make some mistake. Last night in race 1 I was probably a bit unlucky, as most of my cuts were proper mistakes in the grass, and of course no human would have considered them a cut. But had I been more careful later in the race, I would have surely avoided the last (unmarked in the logs) cut that costed me the penalty.

So.... long live PLP!

Offline marty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3747
  • Karma: -63
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2017, 06:14:27 PM »
As for chicanes and cutting, easy, fuck that chicane right off. Anyone putting in or designing a track with a chicane has no business in track building.

This is usually what people that cant get around a chicane properly say.  ;D Some chicanes are world famous corners think Eau Rogue, Corkscrew at Laguna etc.

They are normally a very technical section of track and do expose poor driving more then many other corners.

Offline Mael

  • RestrictedRacing
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1045
  • Karma: 21
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2017, 06:15:13 PM »
As for chicanes and cutting, easy, fuck that chicane right off. Anyone putting in or designing a track with a chicane has no business in track building.

While I agree the person who designed Monza's chicane should be hung, drawn and quartered there are a place for chicanes in racing. The Nurburgring chicane is not too bad and it certainly does present a driving challenge especially with those sausage curbs.  My setup was pretty forgiving with curbs so jumping over the entry curb was great fun during the race. Could never manage to safely go over the exit sausage curb though.

Offline grat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 16
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2017, 06:20:42 PM »
As for chicanes and cutting, easy, fuck that chicane right off. Anyone putting in or designing a track with a chicane has no business in track building.

While I agree the person who designed Monza's chicane should be hung, drawn and quartered there are a place for chicanes in racing. The Nurburgring chicane is not too bad and it certainly does present a driving challenge especially with those sausage curbs.  My setup was pretty forgiving with curbs so jumping over the entry curb was great fun during the race. Could never manage to safely go over the exit sausage curb though.
You mean the first chicane, I guess. The Ascari is actually really good, in my opinion, and the Variante della Roggia is not too bad, considering the designer had very limited space to work with and that they definitely could not leave the Roggia straight-corner as it was with downforce cars.

Offline Mael

  • RestrictedRacing
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1045
  • Karma: 21
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2017, 06:31:04 PM »
You mean the first chicane, I guess.

I will leave naming the corners to the Italians  ;D  and yes it goes without saying that the first corner is the one that cannot be bulldoze quickly enough.

Offline marty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3747
  • Karma: -63
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2017, 06:40:54 PM »
Monza is getting a rebuild of the first chicane anyway, I dont mind t1 chicane there as it is a very critical part of the lap and a great passing chance where a move can be made from inside or outside on entry. 2 good drivers can take it side by side 1 poor one cant get around on their own most times.  ;D

The thing is that such corners many make it harder for themselves then they should, simply by pushing the braking too much. If you do lock a wheel on entry you will make a proper mess of the corner and likely lose 1 to 2 seconds by the next chicane. Get the braking done late but in control and nail the first and second apex you can get a big jump on most of the field there.

Lap 1 its quite awkward as anyone touching a sausage curb will come across the track and cause a pile up if overlapping with another car. More often then not there will be a lap 1 incident there but with some patience and learning how best to take such corners it can be fairly easily managed every lap by anyone.

...Some chicanes are world famous corners think Eau Rogue, Corkscrew at Laguna ...

I consider those as more of an S bend.
Chicanes where you can't go side by side without slowing to near walking pace are the ones that need bulldozing, such as Monza.
When it boils down to it these nick nack chicanes are equivalent to having a three lane wide track coming upon a concrete gateway where only one car can pass through the gap. eg Those pathetic chicanes at the Gold Coast, ffs they have a giveway rule there, is this a bloody race track or a T-intersection.

Pretty much every corner you will need to slow a bit to go side by side. It adds strategy and goves both attacking and defending driver a chance. I had a good little battle with Grat at the final chicane in race 1 and have had some good racing at probably all the corners you hate.

Offline Mael

  • RestrictedRacing
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1045
  • Karma: 21
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2017, 07:02:26 PM »
chance. I had a good little battle with Grat at the final chicane in race 1


Brave Marty very brave.  :P

Offline grat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 16
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2017, 07:35:15 PM »
chance. I had a good little battle with Grat at the final chicane in race 1


Brave Marty very brave.  :P
Hey!!!  >:(....  ;)

Marty, you should make that video, I told you...

Offline grat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Karma: 16
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2017, 08:07:25 PM »
Ok, there you go: I made the video myself. Quality is what it is, but it's 3 nice laps.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqnV02DnRZM[/youtube]

Offline marty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3747
  • Karma: -63
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2017, 08:32:30 PM »
At least I made you work for that spot Grat on my harder compound tyres, how did I get it back?  ;) Oh kind of the same way I gave it away race 2 lol.

Offline Wally

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11033
  • Karma: 152
  • AC Admin
    • View Profile
Re: S15R2: Nurburgring GP Post Race Chat
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2017, 08:35:25 PM »
Ok, so basically you are saying the log is wrong and I did have 4 cuts. It's possible, as I had a pair of offs at some point when I lost the lead, and then I had a long at the chicane, so probably that's it. But I'll keep an eye on you ;)
Fixed the results - it now shows all cuts as well as a time penalty (previously the 4th cut didn't show up, as it only reported the penalty and not the cut).

http://xgnassettocorsa.blogspot.com.au/2017/01/s15r2-praga-r1-at-nurburgring-gp.html

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal