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General Category => Hardware & Reviews => Topic started by: buellersdayoff on September 25, 2018, 08:51:59 AM

Title: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 25, 2018, 08:51:59 AM
I've been meaning to share my thoughts on this cpu for a while since a few people have mentioned sharing during race chat. (not a brag)
First up, this upgrade from 6700k was probably not needed and is an expensive one considering the small gains to be had...but I had the itch like some others here. With the 6700k I was noticing some hitching/micro stutter in AC particularly when the leader crosses the start/finish on the first & last lap, also when people were entering discord chat during practice. I was unable to find a solution/optimisation, the cpu was already overclocked to the max and the (small I know) issues being just annoying enough to fuel my upgrade itch. I believe the 8700k has helped a lot but not totally rid the issue, doesn't happen with discord any longer, but still very occasional (much smaller and less frequent) micro stutter in ac start/finish line. So the extra cpu threads/resources have helped my system overall, particularly when running multiple background tasks eg, Sim Hub, Crew Chief, discord and what ever else windows tries to do these days. Battlefield 1 frame rate has increased by a nice margin, previously was about 90-125 fps with my settings and now at 110-150 fps, the only thing is it's not perceivable, the game ran so smooth anyways.
 So if your thinking about upgrading, the price to performance is not great but the performance is there especially if your on older hardware.
These 14nm cpu's run hot so I've done the de-lid and apply liquid metal on both my cpu's but the 6700k had custom water cooling and the 8700k I have a big Cryorig R1 Universal air cooler and temps are quite nice.
My 8700k seems to be a decent one, not golden but not shite, settings;
5Ghz @ 1.3v, vcore in hwinfo reads 1.32v under light loads and 1.29v under heavy load/stress tests, so still a small amount of vdroop.
Cache is set to stock, no overclock there.
Ram is 4x 8gb 3200 @ 3466mhz with vccio @ 1.15v and vccsa (internal memory controller) 1.18v. Hwinfo shows these at 1.17 & 1.19 respectively. Also xmp profiles usually pump too much voltage into these, upwards of 1.3v unnecessarily increasing cpu temps.
All other intel turbo, speed step, power saving features are still enabled. I haven't the cpu any higher yet, very happy with where it is now.
Just sharing my results for those interested and for the guys that have the same cpu. Any questions I'll try my best to answer, I'm not a pro at this stuff just a pc/gaming enthusiast, it's my hobby I spend my hard earned on instead of beer or whatever (don't you judge me lol).
I'm also interested in the guys sharing there thoughts on the ryzen stuff since I almost converted to save a few bucks but only stuck with intel because I'm familiar with it and I knew my ram was compatible.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on September 25, 2018, 01:24:31 PM
Sounds good. I currently have an i5 6500 (non-k) which I do want to upgrade soon to something meatier and a fancier MB. That said I also have a GTX 970 and would like to upgrade that to a 1080TI so not sure I can justify doing both. If I did do both through I pretty much have a second system as I upgraded my case and a few other parts a while back, so selling the second system could cover some of the cost.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 25, 2018, 02:48:48 PM
There's quite a few second hand beefy cards floating around ebay & gumtree which you could probably pick up pretty cheap, also sales on new ones popping up every now and then. New 9 series cpus and z390 mobos coming out soon so there might even be some second hand i7/z370 bargains too. The new 9700k 8 core without hyperthreading sounds like it's going to be a good cpu for a gaming pc, depending on pricing.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 06, 2018, 08:37:08 AM
I'm following in your footsteps.... Happy Xmas/early Birthday too meeee!

I ordered a bundle from PC Case Gear: 8700k + ASUS ROG Z370-G Mobo and 16GB of 3000MHz Team T-Force Delta. I then also got an ex-mined Gigabyte 1070 on eBay for $360 (assuming ex-mined due to the fact the guy was selling 20 of them)

5Ghz @ 1.3v seems pretty good. I'm hoping I can get away with that too with air cooling. I have a Kraken x52 cooler.

My justification for such a big upgrade is that I have now upgraded everything and have a second system that'll I'll look to sell to cover some of the cost.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 06, 2018, 09:39:27 AM
Sweet combo, should be good. My old gtx780 reference model in my daughters rig started to display graphical glitches (green dots intermittently) so went hunting on gumtree and got an evga sc2 1070 for $375, was asking 450 (he had two and almost took both at that price). Pristine condition and said never mined on, face to face he seemed genuine. A bit overkill for my daughter lol, but should hopefully last a long while and she's starting to play my games from steam and Ubisoft
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 07, 2018, 08:24:31 AM
Work in progress. Couple of hours last night; bigger job that I thought as pretty much a new build. GPU due for delivery today so should be all finished tonight yeeewwwwww
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 07, 2018, 08:37:47 AM
It's no small task, do you have your windows key or have it tied to a Microshaft account? New mobo drivers downloaded on usb ready to go (chipset, lan, audio). Looking good
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bird on December 07, 2018, 10:28:44 AM
It's no small task, do you have your windows key or have it tied to a Microshaft account? New mobo drivers downloaded on usb ready to go (chipset, lan, audio). Looking good

I always forget the drivers.  Luckily we've multiple computers in the house, so it's not that big a deal :)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 07, 2018, 01:00:00 PM
do you have your windows key or have it tied to a Microshaft account?

Can't really remember but I'm not changing HDDs so not a problem
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 07, 2018, 01:12:54 PM
do you have your windows key or have it tied to a Microshaft account?

Can't really remember but I'm not changing HDDs so not a problem
Usually with a mobo swap windows will need to be reactivated, so just punch the code again or if you've logged in to a Microshaft account it should be ok.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 07, 2018, 01:37:33 PM
do you have your windows key or have it tied to a Microshaft account?

Can't really remember but I'm not changing HDDs so not a problem
Usually with a mobo swap windows will need to be reactivated, so just punch the code again or if you've logged in to a Microshaft account it should be ok.

Ah okay. Pretty sure I have the code in my email somewhere.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 07, 2018, 02:30:13 PM
do you have your windows key or have it tied to a Microshaft account?

Can't really remember but I'm not changing HDDs so not a problem
Usually with a mobo swap windows will need to be reactivated, so just punch the code again or if you've logged in to a Microshaft account it should be ok.

Ah okay. Pretty sure I have the code in my email somewhere.
I've used jelly bean key finder before and works ok https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/find-windows-10-product-key-3632749/
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 07, 2018, 04:24:33 PM
do you have your windows key or have it tied to a Microshaft account?

Can't really remember but I'm not changing HDDs so not a problem
Usually with a mobo swap windows will need to be reactivated, so just punch the code again or if you've logged in to a Microshaft account it should be ok.

Ah okay. Pretty sure I have the code in my email somewhere.
I've used jelly bean key finder before and works ok https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/find-windows-10-product-key-3632749/

I have a windows 8 key in my email from when I bought it so should be all good. heading home from work now looking forward to finishing off the build once the kids are in bed!
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 07, 2018, 04:55:01 PM
I think when you upgrade to 10, win 10 allocates a new key, so if the 8 key don't work try a key finder, none of this will be necessary if it doesn't ask you to reactivate but for me it did with a mobo upgrade
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 12:05:58 AM
it was all going so well... got new drivers etc installed ran tomb raider benchmark on highest settings and average 80fps which is double what my old system did then boom it turned off. wont turn back on again. light on the mobo come on but wont power up... took my old psu and connected it to the mobo only it tried to boot. new psu plugged back in and nothing.. think the new psu just died after about 30 mins use
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Phil.8 on December 08, 2018, 12:21:48 AM
that's bloody annoying
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bird on December 08, 2018, 07:26:13 AM
it was all going so well... got new drivers etc installed ran tomb raider benchmark on highest settings and average 80fps which is double what my old system did then boom it turned off. wont turn back on again. light on the mobo come on but wont power up... took my old psu and connected it to the mobo only it tried to boot. new psu plugged back in and nothing.. think the new psu just died after about 30 mins use
Ouch.   My condolences.  Would you share what PSU was it?
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 07:40:50 AM
it was all going so well... got new drivers etc installed ran tomb raider benchmark on highest settings and average 80fps which is double what my old system did then boom it turned off. wont turn back on again. light on the mobo come on but wont power up... took my old psu and connected it to the mobo only it tried to boot. new psu plugged back in and nothing.. think the new psu just died after about 30 mins use
Ouch.   My condolences.  Would you share what PSU was it?

its a be quiet power 10. the old one is a power 8 so I'll put that in later and contact pccg about a return.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 07:50:23 AM
it was all going so well... got new drivers etc installed ran tomb raider benchmark on highest settings and average 80fps which is double what my old system did then boom it turned off. wont turn back on again. light on the mobo come on but wont power up... took my old psu and connected it to the mobo only it tried to boot. new psu plugged back in and nothing.. think the new psu just died after about 30 mins use
Ouch.   My condolences.  Would you share what PSU was it?
Ouch all right...what is the new psu, and if you fully connect the old one does the system work or has it taken the mobo with it?
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on December 08, 2018, 08:13:46 AM
Not good Joe, but in Electronic Component reliability terms its called "infant mortality", where if something is going to fail it will be within the first few hours of use, which is why I never pay for extended warranties. A PC power supply is a  "switching power supply design" which places a lot of stress on the components.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 08:47:10 AM
just put the old psu back in and we're all up and running. brand new psu that lasted less than an hour... have put in a return claim on pccg
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 09:26:41 AM
just put the old psu back in and we're all up and running. brand new psu that lasted less than an hour... have put in a return claim on pccg
Lucky system components weren't taken out with it, what's the psu?
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 09:35:39 AM
just put the old psu back in and we're all up and running. brand new psu that lasted less than an hour... have put in a return claim on pccg
Lucky system components weren't taken out with it, what's the psu?

be quiet pure power 10. the old one is a pure power 8 and still going strong so just unlucky I guess
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 10:22:57 AM
just put the old psu back in and we're all up and running. brand new psu that lasted less than an hour... have put in a return claim on pccg
Lucky system components weren't taken out with it, what's the psu?

be quiet pure power 10. the old one is a pure power 8 and still going strong so just unlucky I guess
Bummer, it happens sometimes, had a brand new asus mobo not boot once before
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 12:08:37 PM
I think when you upgrade to 10, win 10 allocates a new key, so if the 8 key don't work try a key finder, none of this will be necessary if it doesn't ask you to reactivate but for me it did with a mobo upgrade

Annoying you're right I need to active windows. My Win8 key doesn't work so I downloaded the jelly bean key finder and it shows a Win10 Enterprise key, but my activation screen says Win10 Pro and the key doesn't work :\
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 12:17:07 PM
I think when you upgrade to 10, win 10 allocates a new key, so if the 8 key don't work try a key finder, none of this will be necessary if it doesn't ask you to reactivate but for me it did with a mobo upgrade

Annoying you're right I need to active windows. My Win8 key doesn't work so I downloaded the jelly bean key finder and it shows a Win10 Enterprise key, but my activation screen says Win10 Pro and the key doesn't work :\
Might need to go through the Microsoft support system phone or chat, I've had to do that with one system before, just say you replaced the old mobo which died or whatever. Or try adding a Microsoft account to your login, I haven't had any problems since doing that
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 12:33:53 PM
I think when you upgrade to 10, win 10 allocates a new key, so if the 8 key don't work try a key finder, none of this will be necessary if it doesn't ask you to reactivate but for me it did with a mobo upgrade

Annoying you're right I need to active windows. My Win8 key doesn't work so I downloaded the jelly bean key finder and it shows a Win10 Enterprise key, but my activation screen says Win10 Pro and the key doesn't work :\
Might need to go through the Microsoft support system phone or chat, I've had to do that with one system before, just say you replaced the old mobo which died or whatever. Or try adding a Microsoft account to your login, I haven't had any problems since doing that

yeah I think maybe when I put the win 8 key in it changed it to pro. i found an enterprise product I'd online which change it to say enterprise then when I went through the 'I changed hardware' wizard it said activation servers were down so will try again in a bit
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 01:53:50 PM
I went straight for a 5Ghz overclock at 3v and ran the AIDA64 stress test for 15 mins and no drops in core speeds and averaged 72 degrees on the CPU which doesn't seem too bad. I did connect my radiator fans to the fan controller which I'm now thinking as wrong, and they should be on the CPU headers so will change that and try the test again and see if it runs any cooler
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 03:34:31 PM
Cool... 1.3v? Use hwinfo64 to check. Stress testing should be a bit longer, couple hours for stability testing but ok for preliminary checks. Which fan headers you use don't really matter, only that if you don't connect one to cpu header the bios may flag no fan reading. Make sure though that pwm fans are connected to 4pin pwm headers and pwm is enabled in bios for those headers, some default to dc voltage control. Asus bios usually has a fan expert thing that runs your fans up then down to find min and max speeds. I think most can do 5ghz so you should be good, I tried 5.1 a couple weeks ago but I think it's gonna need quit a bit more vcore to be fully stable, so I've left it 5.
If you have a Microshaft account sign into it and it might sort out the activation, you can always remove the account if you don't want it on the pc
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 03:50:51 PM
I've put the kraken on the water pump header and put the two fans on the rad into the CPU fan headers now instead of the fan controller and it is running cooler.

I set 1.3v on the core but I can see it fluctuating a bit so must be a setting somewhere doing that.  I followed a tutorial that should have made it consistent
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 05:19:01 PM
It will fluctuate a bit since the sensors only read @ 0.016v if it's more than that it's most likely the llc setting which allows vcore to drop off under heavier loads, to offset the vdroop put llc to around 6 and it should stay close to what you set
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 07:25:31 PM
I've been slowly decreasing the voltage to see how low I van get without aida64 stress test blue screening. 1.28v was all good but 1.27v blue screened after 10 mins. trying 1.275v now and if that's all good will try some further stress tests.

why is it as I'm changing voltages the CPU clock can be 1 or 2 mhz different? occasionally its showed 5000 right now its showing 4998
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 07:32:04 PM
I've been slowly decreasing the voltage to see how low I van get without aida64 stress test blue screening. 1.28v was all good but 1.27v blue screened after 10 mins. trying 1.275v now and if that's all good will try some further stress tests.

why is it as I'm changing voltages the CPU clock can be 1 or 2 mhz different? occasionally its showed 5000 right now its showing 4998
The bclk (base clock, default 100) will fluctuate a bit that's normal, don't worry about that
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 07:35:00 PM
okay cool. well 1.275v didnt crash aida64 and the lower voltage meant average CPU temp of 66 degrees. running cinebench now the  will give Intel burn test a run
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bacchulum on December 08, 2018, 07:37:28 PM
I've been trying to follow and learn something from this thread but it's now just turned into gobble-de-gook. :o :-X
It reminds me I only know the car bit of sim-racing, not the computer bit (hence my attempt to learn).
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 08:21:12 PM
I've been trying to follow and learn something from this thread but it's now just turned into gobble-de-gook. :o :-X
It reminds me I only know the car bit of sim-racing, not the computer bit (hence my attempt to learn).
Lol, several years as an automotive mechanic and still a lot of the car set up stuff in sims is the same for me, particularly when any adjustment made is not helpful at all. That was quite a few years ago now and this pc stuff is still fresh lol
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on December 08, 2018, 08:26:43 PM
okay cool. well 1.275v didnt crash aida64 and the lower voltage meant average CPU temp of 66 degrees. running cinebench now the  will give Intel burn test a run
Seems good, I normally use asus realbench (uses h264 encode) and prime95 with avx disabled (v26.6 disabled by default, other versions need to manually) for about 2 to 4 hours
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 08, 2018, 09:04:09 PM
okay cool. well 1.275v didnt crash aida64 and the lower voltage meant average CPU temp of 66 degrees. running cinebench now the  will give Intel burn test a run
Seems good, I normally use asus realbench (uses h264 encode) and prime95 with avx disabled (v26.6 disabled by default, other versions need to manually) for about 2 to 4 hours

Intel burn test crapped itself, but a lot of people say not to use it. I ran Asus Realbench and that was all good. I may leave it as is for now and see how it handles gaming for a while.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Phil.8 on December 08, 2018, 09:09:55 PM
Yeah, real life is the real test :)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Wally on December 12, 2018, 02:27:32 PM
I just got an RTX 2080. AC maxxed out runs at 75 - 90 FPS on triples in full race conditions. ACC racing at night against AI on triples, everything on epic, runs at about 75 FPS. Epic! ACC looks awesome at night. The lights of following cars in your mirrors, glow from brake lights, sparks from diffusers hitting kerbs...
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 12, 2018, 04:04:18 PM
I just got an RTX 2080. AC maxxed out runs at 75 - 90 FPS on triples in full race conditions. ACC racing at night against AI on triples, everything on epic, runs at about 75 FPS. Epic! ACC looks awesome at night. The lights of following cars in your mirrors, glow from brake lights, sparks from diffusers hitting kerbs...

Awesome! AC really does seem to depend on the track too. Last night I was between 70fps and 90fps as I was lapping but as I'm running at 60Hz anything more than 60fps is thrown away. That's part of why I decided to go for a used 1070 as a cheap GPU upgrade and spend the rest on new CPU  8)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Phil.8 on December 12, 2018, 04:10:10 PM
I just got an RTX 2080. AC maxxed out runs at 75 - 90 FPS on triples in full race conditions. ACC racing at night against AI on triples, everything on epic, runs at about 75 FPS. Epic! ACC looks awesome at night. The lights of following cars in your mirrors, glow from brake lights, sparks from diffusers hitting kerbs...

Jealous AF 
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 12, 2018, 04:23:43 PM
I just got an RTX 2080. AC maxxed out runs at 75 - 90 FPS on triples in full race conditions. ACC racing at night against AI on triples, everything on epic, runs at about 75 FPS. Epic! ACC looks awesome at night. The lights of following cars in your mirrors, glow from brake lights, sparks from diffusers hitting kerbs...

Jealous AF

Say's the guy with the 1080TI.... ::)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Wally on December 12, 2018, 04:37:27 PM
I just got an RTX 2080. AC maxxed out runs at 75 - 90 FPS on triples in full race conditions. ACC racing at night against AI on triples, everything on epic, runs at about 75 FPS. Epic! ACC looks awesome at night. The lights of following cars in your mirrors, glow from brake lights, sparks from diffusers hitting kerbs...

Jealous AF

Say's the guy with the 1080TI.... ::)
I would have gone for a 1080Ti but you can't get them any more (or they're rare as hen's teeth).
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on December 12, 2018, 05:11:50 PM
I just got an RTX 2080. AC maxxed out runs at 75 - 90 FPS on triples in full race conditions. ACC racing at night against AI on triples, everything on epic, runs at about 75 FPS. Epic! ACC looks awesome at night. The lights of following cars in your mirrors, glow from brake lights, sparks from diffusers hitting kerbs...

Jealous AF



Say's the guy with the 1080TI.... ::)
I would have gone for a 1080Ti but you can't get them any more (or they're rare as hen's teeth).
Was a guy selling 10 ex-mined ones for $750 each on a Facebook group yesterday... was almost tempted  ;D
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bird on December 12, 2018, 05:38:48 PM
The 1080Ti does not lack performance that's for sure.  With the 4k screen it works flawlessly whatever I throw at it.  :)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on December 13, 2018, 04:33:17 PM
I've been trying to follow and learn something from this thread but it's now just turned into gobble-de-gook. :o :-X
It reminds me I only know the car bit of sim-racing, not the computer bit (hence my attempt to learn).
This may help Bacchulum, from 2010 but still relevant.

https://www.overclockers.com/3-step-guide-overclock-core-i3-i5-i7/
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bacchulum on December 13, 2018, 06:19:16 PM
I've been trying to follow and learn something from this thread but it's now just turned into gobble-de-gook. :o :-X
It reminds me I only know the car bit of sim-racing, not the computer bit (hence my attempt to learn).
This may help Bacchulum, from 2010 but still relevant.

https://www.overclockers.com/3-step-guide-overclock-core-i3-i5-i7/
Thanks Roo. ;)
But I'll have to get back to that on a long weekend (just to read it all :P ).
Title: Re: System upgrade - but whhich CPU?????
Post by: rooshooter on September 19, 2019, 07:40:14 AM
I am now addicted to racing with VR :'( and are facing quite a few challenges in doing so. Last Tuesday night was very frustrating when Discord would not function without massive stuttering, I later discovered my CPU was so overloaded it could no run Discord !!! having 23 other cars on the track would not have helped.
My current CPU is a i5 4690k OCed to 4.5 Ghz 4 cores no threads, cost me $200 used, and coupled with a Gigabyte 2080ti.
Through a lot of testing I have found the sweet spot for my Lenovo Explorer VR headset (1440x1440 displays) is to run them at 3200x3200 per eye!!! at this setting the result is close enough to monitor quality 8) imho, these are the sort of resolutions the 2080 ti excel at.
I now have Content Manager video settings( most stuff turned off or very low) that we allow me to run up to 8 AI cars at 3200x3200 at 90FPS (critical rate for VR) with it seems, most combos of cars and tracks, the immersion is so good you don't seem to miss the missing eye candy.
Using MSI Afterburner I can see my CPU is 100 % utilised and GPU at about 75%. This is with most apps turned off including PTracker.

Now the point of all this is what CPU would I need to get 100% utilisation of my GPU and plenty of CPU headroom to run the Apps I want and what is the limiting factor with FPS with a large number of cars on track, is it CPU or GPU?
The Ryzen 7 3700x is 8 cores plus 8 threads BUT core speed is about the same as the i5 4690k, would threading plus 4 cores make that much difference in my situation, I know Assetto Corsa supports Hyperthreading but not all Simracing programs do.
Would I need to go to an 12 core CPU at a nosebleed price :o :o. I am hoping someone here at XGN can help as this will hopefully be my last PC build :) :) :).
Looking forward to your repies 8).
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on September 19, 2019, 08:15:15 AM
CPU or GPU will depend on game, but I know AC is a CPU heavy game. Can't really tell you what CPU is going to give you exactly what you want, but I upgraded from an i5 6500 to an i7 8700k which I've OC to 5gz and just the CPU upgrade gave me a 30fps increase in some games. Also things like Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 emulation which are hugely CPU intensive and ran like shite on my old CPU now run great. I'd maybe look at some of the PCCaseGear CPU/MB combos. No doubt Bueller will be able to give you better advice  8)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Jarmel on September 19, 2019, 11:44:45 AM
I'd bite the bullet and go for a top end cpu to make sure you get the results your after, nothing worse than buying something that doesn't do what you hoped it would. Your also wanting top end performance to achieve the results your after.   The AMD ryzen 9 3900x  or the intel i9 9900k  is top end .
The amd one is supposed to be the better of the two , but the intel works a little better where multicore use isn't as important ie: most games. The Amd is more future proof than the Intel as more and more games  start to utilise the extra cores.

For pure gaming its probably a safer bet to go with the intel 9900 or the 9700, but i'm guessing due to the amount of apps we use in AC the extra cores of the AMD 3900 or the 3700 might drag em over the line, just a guess tho. If you stream or fraps your races amd is best bet.  None of these Cpu's should bottleneck your Gpu unless your multitasking too much stuff.

I am no expert by any means but been keeping an eye on these things for about 4 months now as i want to upgrade my system again that I built 5 months ago roughly, as it isn't quite good enough for what i want.

Going to be pricey tho will need new mobo and if amd will want faster ram 3200mhz .

Also one thing to consider on comparing price is if the cpu comes with a cooler or not

On Core Speed it doesn't tell the whole story anymore, Amd has lower core speeds but there architecture allows it to pass info thru faster than the intel architecture.
Cpu usage is increased by more cars and larger textures so the higher the resolution the more stress on the CPU.

A couple of quick links as reference.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

https://www.techradar.com/au/news/best-processors

https://www.pcgamer.com/au/best-cpu-for-gaming/

Disclaimer , I am no expert far from it and probably know just enough to give bad advice .
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Jarmel on September 19, 2019, 12:00:06 PM
Myself i'm looking at the amd 3600  knowing that the next couple of generations are going to be using the same chipsets so upgrading the cpu at a later stage shouldn't require a new mobo.
Also have you got an me2 drive , these are faster than ssd drives , mainly helps with loading and only a little impact on fps/
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bird on September 19, 2019, 12:54:27 PM
Couple of notes - just my 2c:

- Some of the me2's aren't faster than the regular SSDs.   Their spec *allows* them to communicate faster, but not all are - they are SSDs too (solid state drives: not spindle, but memory-chip based), just with a different bus.   Even those that are faster, aren't perceptibly so, in normal use (i.e. desktop/gaming).  This in my experience (got both, samsung 850pro SSD vs 960evo me2, same 1TB variants).

- I reckon you're still better off with the Intel, for the following reasons:
  1) core speed is still king in a lot of games, and regardless of what you're running on the side if the main game does not utilise the rest of the cpu, the single-core performance will be the bottleneck.  (and other extra programs can run on other cores; they won't need high performance cores, so that is of no concern)
  2) Intel works better & nicer with nVidia, and nVidia is what you want for top end
  3) Intel 'K' CPUs are very nicely overclockable; so you get a decent 10%-20% extra for your money if you need it later.  That's unbeatable, it's equivalent to a small upgrade.

And even though you might be better of with the AMD, say, in 5 years time, by that time you'll want a new computer anyway :)

Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 19, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
If I was buying right now I'd go 8 cores with ht, some fast ram 3200MHz min, a good mid range mobo and a big Samsung evo/pro ssd not the qv's. Only depending on budget would I decide Intel or amd, and drop down to 6 core amd if the budget was tightish. Ryzen 3600 is similar in benchmarks to 8700k and the amd CPU's come with a decent cooler (upgrade if you want cooler/quieter but not over the top). So....
Tightish budget... Ryzen 2600/3600, 3200MHz ram (min), b450/x470. Big Samsung evo ssd.
Or... Ryzen 3700, 3600mhz ram, b450/x470/x570 (not sure when b550 is coming). Maybe upgrade cpu cooler to something beefier and quiet.
Money to burn... 9900k (needs beefy cooling $$), z390 (don't cheap out $$), 3200MHz ram min.
I reckon in a few years a 6 core will be like previous gen i5's but at least amd should have better upgrade path so a 3600 is still a good choice. Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus have some good videos on ryzen mobo recommendations, you can get previous gen boards on sale just don't go to the bottom of the barrel.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Jarmel on September 19, 2019, 06:50:17 PM
Couple of notes - just my 2c:

- Some of the me2's aren't faster than the regular SSDs.   Their spec *allows* them to communicate faster, but not all are - they are SSDs too (solid state drives: not spindle, but memory-chip based), just with a different bus.   Even those that are faster, aren't perceptibly so, in normal use (i.e. desktop/gaming).  This in my experience (got both, samsung 850pro SSD vs 960evo me2, same 1TB variants).


Yes you have to be careful with me2 , some are just ssd packaged as me2 and your mobo has to have the correct pci slot ( not a sata slot) to use the better version of the me2.

So.… Tightish budget... Ryzen 2600/3600, 3200MHz ram (min),

Don't go for the 2600 , it will be a bottleneck at those resolutions with your GPU, its what I have and it bottlenecks my amd 580
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 19, 2019, 09:31:29 PM
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/484250 futu_online ebay has 20%off with code, prices are a little jacked but with the 20% and free post usually ends up a decent price compared to pccasegear+postage (I've bought a lot from pccg too but a long while ago), I've bought heaps of stuff from them and their shipping time is fast at least in Sydney regions. I put 3700x + gskill 3200 16gb + sam 500ssd + msi tomahawk b450 in my cart 1146-20% $916. https://www.pccasegear.com/wish_lists/876150/amd $976+postage
Mostly depends on the budget and brands you like anyways...
Oh.... https://www.pccasegear.com/products/44161/intel-core-i9-9900k-processor $800 lol
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on September 23, 2019, 08:00:56 AM
Sorry for the delay in responding ,I have been away.
Anyway thanks for all the knowledgeable replies :) with this info and some further research I have determined I will have to push  current PC tech to the limits :'(. I am now pretty sure CPU cores and Clock speed are the top priority , hyperthreading is not going to add much. I really wanted to go AMD this time but the case for Intel is just too good :'(
Any recommendations on Mobo brands, and which ones to avoid?
Does anyone have any experience with "closed loop CPU liquid coolers" and any recomendations?
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bird on September 23, 2019, 08:57:46 AM
Sorry for the delay in responding ,I have been away.
Anyway thanks for all the knowledgeable replies :) with this info and some further research I have determined I will have to push  current PC tech to the limits :'(. I am now pretty sure CPU cores and Clock speed are the top priority , hyperthreading is not going to add much. I really wanted to go AMD this time but the case for Intel is just too good :'(
Any recommendations on Mobo brands, and which ones to avoid?
Does anyone have any experience with "closed loop CPU liquid coolers" and any recomendations?

Brands wise I usually stick to Asus, never had a fault.  All the regular brands have more faults (eg Gigabite, MSI) and the really bottom-end I won't even mention.

I'm using water cooling for a while now, got the  NZXT Kraken X62 currently, it's great performance-wise, but the motor has died on me once.  Had to get a cheap heatsink while the warranty replacment was churning along, fucking annoying that lots of shops don't do local warranties.

Before that I've used a Corsair H100i , that was good, too.  And it didn't fail on me. :)

With this sort of cooling two things to strongly consider;
1) noise (when at full tilt, they can be!)
2) space - radiators be big.  Make sure it fits.

The performance will be good, if you don't eff up the installation :)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on September 23, 2019, 11:15:57 AM
got the  NZXT Kraken X62

I have the X52, just a bit smaller but still does a good job cooling my CPU. Nice to be able to tweak all the settings for noise vs temps. Plus the RGB on it is awesome  8)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Jarmel on September 23, 2019, 01:10:58 PM
Sorry for the delay in responding ,I have been away.
Anyway thanks for all the knowledgeable replies :) with this info and some further research I have determined I will have to push  current PC tech to the limits :'(. I am now pretty sure CPU cores and Clock speed are the top priority , hyperthreading is not going to add much. I really wanted to go AMD this time but the case for Intel is just too good :'(
Any recommendations on Mobo brands, and which ones to avoid?
Does anyone have any experience with "closed loop CPU liquid coolers" and any recomendations?

Highly recommend not going liquid cooling unless you allready have the gear, the money spent on that is better off being used to get a better cpu . Unless off course its something you just want to do for sake of doing it, then go for it.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 23, 2019, 01:59:41 PM
https://www.pccasegear.com/wish_lists/865509/Intel%208core

Agree with the air cooling, a good single tower or big dual tower

https://youtu.be/_LQacSdJt7c

https://youtu.be/v5NDtS8za8g
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on September 23, 2019, 02:53:55 PM
Agree with the air cooling, a good single tower or big dual tower

But the RGBBBBBBBBBes? And no I totally didn't buy another 16GB of RAM the other day just to have all 4 slots filled with RGB RAM  ::)

(https://i.imgur.com/Td1xneul.jpg)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on September 23, 2019, 03:16:54 PM
This deal is very tempting https://www.pccasegear.com/wish_lists/865509/Intel%208core at a lot less money than I thought it was going to cost, thanks Bueller :) :)....almost at "add to cart" :). I already have a good Be quite Airtower with dual fans that should do the job.

No offence Joe, but not a big fan of RRRRRRRBBBBBBBBGGGGGG ::).
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bacchulum on September 23, 2019, 04:47:08 PM
I agree roo, what's become of subtlety? ???
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bird on September 23, 2019, 05:47:31 PM
RGB is an absolute must have, with a glass case, no less!
It always gets an exclamation from visitors . :D

Especially when the keyboard & mouse are RBG, too.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on September 23, 2019, 09:14:21 PM
lol Bird :).
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 23, 2019, 09:57:45 PM
https://www.pccasegear.com/wish_lists/989928/Intel8Core
A slightly more refined choice rather than the pre-packaged kit. Save a few bucks from things you might not need...
Mobo doesn't have wifi but better vrm, more usb ports.
CPU same but doesn't have integrated graphics.
Memory is a bit slower but with tighter timings and the shorter heat sink should better clearance with most tower coolers, no arrgeeebeee lol. Depends on brand preference too.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on September 24, 2019, 06:58:02 AM
Thanks Bueller, but following Bird's advice I would prefer to stick to Asus mobo :).

I have ordered this one.
https://www.pccasegear.com/wish_lists/865509/Intel%208core
without the cooler. I will see how my cooler goes and if I won the the CPU oced lottery and then maybe upgrade to Liquid cooling.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Bird on September 25, 2019, 08:30:45 AM
Memory is a bit slower but with tighter timings ...
Funny thing there;  I remember reading an article & test a few years ago, where they've compared RAM modules.  Back then their conclusion was the ram "Speed" (the frequency) was of lesser importance for the performance, the timing was a much greater factor.   I wonder if this is still true, though.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on September 25, 2019, 08:42:58 AM
Memory is a bit slower but with tighter timings ...
Funny thing there;  I remember reading an article & test a few years ago, where they've compared RAM modules.  Back then their conclusion was the ram "Speed" (the frequency) was of lesser importance for the performance, the timing was a much greater factor.   I wonder if this is still true, though.

We all know RGB is the most important factor. The girls love it.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 25, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
Memory is a bit slower but with tighter timings ...
Funny thing there;  I remember reading an article & test a few years ago, where they've compared RAM modules.  Back then their conclusion was the ram "Speed" (the frequency) was of lesser importance for the performance, the timing was a much greater factor.   I wonder if this is still true, though.
Comparing the two kits 3200MHz and 3600mhz they'd most likely perform about the same because of the difference in speed and timings. From memory (pun) I think you're right but it was also application dependent, some like the speed some like the timings. It is also different for Intel and new Amd CPU's
https://youtu.be/VElMNPXJtuA
https://youtu.be/iH3qq_mSxTM
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 25, 2019, 09:53:14 AM
Memory is a bit slower but with tighter timings ...
Funny thing there;  I remember reading an article & test a few years ago, where they've compared RAM modules.  Back then their conclusion was the ram "Speed" (the frequency) was of lesser importance for the performance, the timing was a much greater factor.   I wonder if this is still true, though.

We all know RGB is the most important factor. The girls love it.
First you get the RGB, then you get the power and then you get the women
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/dd97c274edfc34f739b09a883d68e8ad.gif)
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on September 25, 2019, 10:23:09 AM
LOL, I should have gone RRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGBBBBBBBBB ;D. ;D ;D

From what I have read just recently Ram speed is not that critical to overall performance above a certain point.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on September 28, 2019, 10:45:54 AM
All good with the new build, stable OC at 5.2 Mhz, with my tower air cooler ( ASUS AI overclock, not a manual OC, great mobo :) :) ). Can run with 23 AI cars and maintain 90fps at back of grid in VR ,at a resolution of 2900x2900 per eye. Had to format my HD :'( :'( , cloned disk would not boot, and then got error    "windows cannot be installed to this disk. The selected disk has an MBR partition table. On EFI systems, Windows can only be installed to GPT disks."  when I attempted Win 10 install.  This took a while to fix :'(. thanks for the internet.
Anyway I am extremly happy with the result ;) thanks to all those who steered me in the right direction.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 28, 2019, 01:43:46 PM
Sweet, worthy upgrade
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 28, 2019, 09:53:47 PM
All good with the new build, stable OC at 5.2 Mhz, with my tower air cooler ( ASUS AI overclock, not a manual OC, great mobo :) :) ). Can run with 23 AI cars and maintain 90fps at back of grid in VR ,at a resolution of 2900x2900 per eye. Had to format my HD :'( :'( , cloned disk would not boot, and then got error    "windows cannot be installed to this disk. The selected disk has an MBR partition table. On EFI systems, Windows can only be installed to GPT disks."  when I attempted Win 10 install.  This took a while to fix :'(. thanks for the internet.
Anyway I am extremly happy with the result ;) thanks to all those who steered me in the right direction.
https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics
I reckon you got a good one there
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on September 30, 2019, 10:34:00 AM
All good with the new build, stable OC at 5.2 Mhz, with my tower air cooler ( ASUS AI overclock, not a manual OC, great mobo :) :) ). Can run with 23 AI cars and maintain 90fps at back of grid in VR ,at a resolution of 2900x2900 per eye. Had to format my HD :'( :'( , cloned disk would not boot, and then got error    "windows cannot be installed to this disk. The selected disk has an MBR partition table. On EFI systems, Windows can only be installed to GPT disks."  when I attempted Win 10 install.  This took a while to fix :'(. thanks for the internet.
Anyway I am extremly happy with the result ;) thanks to all those who steered me in the right direction.

Very nice. I never tried going above 5ghz but I have a stable 5ghz at 1.275v which is quite low. I've seen a lot of other people need higher voltages to get the 8700k running at 5ghz so I could probably go a bit higher though I'm happy with the cooler temps I'm getting at the current voltage.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on September 30, 2019, 10:36:09 AM
Yes, I was lucky in the OC CPU lottery. Interestingly my air cooler was only a cheapie BEQuiet that I added an extra fan to, a "NoiseBlocker"https://www.pccasegear.com/products/44170/noiseblocker-nb-eloop-fan-b12-p-pwm-120mm which has a high CFM rate.  I also, for the first time, used the "single rice grain" sized thermal paste in the centre of the CPU, I have previously always used the "credit card spread" of a large amount of thermal paste method.  My CPU idle temps are in the low 30 degrees and the highest I've recorded under full load is 78 degrees  ;D.  Is this because of better heat transfer owing to minimal thermal paste application, which prevents any air pockets forming?  I don't know. 
My cooler points were 154 according to Asus AI overclock utility, which put it in the AIO cooler category.
 
This build is also very quiet and under full load is barely audible.

My CPU voltage will go as high 1.36v to run at 5.2Mhz but that apparently is quite OK.
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 30, 2019, 12:01:32 PM
The new 9th gen cpus are soldered under ihs, no more pigeon poo lol, so better heat transfer (although the 9900k still stuggles at max oc because of the power it uses). Only need minimal paste since its only there to fill the micro scratches in the connecting surfaces, obviously too little can impair performance if not getting full coverage. I did a repaste on my old xbox one yesterday because the fan kept kicking in to full speed, what a pita that was, much better now. (xbox is only a media pc these days...don't you judge me lol). Have you tried manual voltages, some boards will over do it a bit, also what ram did you get?
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on October 01, 2019, 08:52:15 AM
The new 9th gen cpus are soldered under ihs, no more pigeon poo lol, so better heat transfer (although the 9900k still stuggles at max oc because of the power it uses). Only need minimal paste since its only there to fill the micro scratches in the connecting surfaces, obviously too little can impair performance if not getting full coverage. I did a repaste on my old xbox one yesterday because the fan kept kicking in to full speed, what a pita that was, much better now. (xbox is only a media pc these days...don't you judge me lol). Have you tried manual voltages, some boards will over do it a bit, also what ram did you get?
The bundle came with 3600 16Gb. I have not tried a manual OC as I figured I would only achieve at best 5.3 GHz anyway. Another plus of this mobo is the built in WiFi with seperate antenna which performs as good as a Lan cable :) :) :). I am super happy with this mobo 8).
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: Joe on October 01, 2019, 07:32:06 PM
The new 9th gen cpus are soldered under ihs, no more pigeon poo lol, so better heat transfer (although the 9900k still stuggles at max oc because of the power it uses). Only need minimal paste since its only there to fill the micro scratches in the connecting surfaces, obviously too little can impair performance if not getting full coverage. I did a repaste on my old xbox one yesterday because the fan kept kicking in to full speed, what a pita that was, much better now. (xbox is only a media pc these days...don't you judge me lol). Have you tried manual voltages, some boards will over do it a bit, also what ram did you get?
The bundle came with 3600 16Gb. I have not tried a manual OC as I figured I would only achieve at best 5.3 GHz anyway. Another plus of this mobo is the built in WiFi with seperate antenna which performs as good as a Lan cable :) :) :). I am super happy with this mobo 8).

Does it have RGB?
Title: Re: System upgrade - 8700k & mobo
Post by: rooshooter on October 01, 2019, 08:26:21 PM
The new 9th gen cpus are soldered under ihs, no more pigeon poo lol, so better heat transfer (although the 9900k still stuggles at max oc because of the power it uses). Only need minimal paste since its only there to fill the micro scratches in the connecting surfaces, obviously too little can impair performance if not getting full coverage. I did a repaste on my old xbox one yesterday because the fan kept kicking in to full speed, what a pita that was, much better now. (xbox is only a media pc these days...don't you judge me lol). Have you tried manual voltages, some boards will over do it a bit, also what ram did you get?
The bundle came with 3600 16Gb. I have not tried a manual OC as I figured I would only achieve at best 5.3 GHz anyway. Another plus of this mobo is the built in WiFi with separate antenna which performs as good as a Lan cable :) :) :). I am super happy with this mobo 8).

Does it have RGB?
Not anymore Joe, lol.
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