Xtreme Gaming Network
Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on November 14, 2017, 11:05:51 PM
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R6, Nov 21: Shanghai (Grand Prix) [DOWNLOAD (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XkwbGUrD1gTy-hNXReFobcnde-Ic8w6y)]
Weather is 22 degrees and clear, with light winds.
Shangahi is a track with quite a few very slow corners and not many places for the LMP1s to stretch their legs. It will be a race requiring some patience.
[youtube]w88z1AGoiVQ[/youtube]
Rolling Start Procedure
We need to maintain more consistent speeds during the formation lap to avoid accidents and collisions. As said before, please don't go higher than 2nd gear and try to maintain a consistent speed, without as much speeding up and slowing down as we had at Paul Ricard. Little speed ups and slow downs at the front of the field are magnified as you go down through the field, which is not fair on the tail of the field.
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Did a few exploration laps, it certainly is a different circuit. Track cuts is going to be an issue for me but did end up having to run a longer top gear. Since the boost is not worth much in the corners you can save it for the two long straights :)
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I thought there would be two GOGOGO's - one for LMP and one for GT3. If not then the front of the GT3 field gets a huge advantage due to the backup through the last turn for the back of the GT3 field. By the time we get around the last turn the GT3 front runners have accelerated through most of the start/finish straight whereas most of the GT3 field should be around the last turn before the GT3 leader passes the start line and accerates from 2nd gear. The fGT3 leader should actually watch their map to make sure the field is bunched up before passing the start line.
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Wally - if there are any open slots I would be keen for a guest appearance. Just returned from extended leave so eager to get back out on track.
GT3 in the Z4 I guess.
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Wally - if there are any open slots I would be keen for a guest appearance. Just returned from extended leave so eager to get back out on track.
GT3 in the Z4 I guess.
Yes sure. I'll set you up in the Z4.
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I thought there would be two GOGOGO's - one for LMP and one for GT3. If not then the front of the GT3 field gets a huge advantage due to the backup through the last turn for the back of the GT3 field. By the time we get around the last turn the GT3 front runners have accelerated through most of the start/finish straight whereas most of the GT3 field should be around the last turn before the GT3 leader passes the start line and accerates from 2nd gear. The fGT3 leader should actually watch their map to make sure the field is bunched up before passing the start line.
Let's try the GT3s delaying their rolling start by say, 30 seconds, to have two distinct groups of cars.
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I thought there would be two GOGOGO's - one for LMP and one for GT3. If not then the front of the GT3 field gets a huge advantage due to the backup through the last turn for the back of the GT3 field. By the time we get around the last turn the GT3 front runners have accelerated through most of the start/finish straight whereas most of the GT3 field should be around the last turn before the GT3 leader passes the start line and accerates from 2nd gear. The fGT3 leader should actually watch their map to make sure the field is bunched up before passing the start line.
Let's try the GT3s delaying their rolling start by say, 30 seconds, to have two distinct groups of cars.
That would fix it I think because it maybe that the GT3 Leaders are trying to keep up with the LMPs on the formation lap causing the dramatic changes in pace at the back.
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I think nominating a top speed rather than 2nd gear would be more specific as to what needs to happen!
And keeping that speed down say 80Km/h should reduce the lag front front to rear of the field.
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I think nominating a top speed rather than 2nd gear would be more specific as to what needs to happen!
And keeping that speed down say 80Km/h should reduce the lag front front to rear of the field.
I think it's easier to stay in 2nd gear. It acts as a natural speed limiter, and you don't have to watch your speed at all. You can just do it by ear and keep your eyes on the cars around you. Experience shows it's not so easy to stick to a nominated speed on a formation lap.
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I think the problem is everyone is trying to stay to close to the car in front, look a t a real race they leave heaps and heap of room so they can weave and brake hard, should be a 4 - 6 car gap between each car, only video I could find to show it is this Grand turismo one :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l9x2n_xbHs
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I think the problem is everyone is trying to stay to close to the car in front, look a t a real race they leave heaps and heap of room so they can weave and brake hard, should be a 4 - 6 car gap between each car, only video I could find to show it is this Grand turismo one
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Agreed but they do rely on the fact that the leader bunches the field around the final corner before the start.
So it is all Grat's fault? ;D
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The problem with a large gap is everyone then has to speed up even more, then brake, to close it before the start.
At the back of the LMP's, I've had to almost need the boost to catch up.
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Just my two cents:
I side with Phil that the issue is that most people seem to think you always need to be packed and close to the front-runner. But there's no need. The front-runners will need to wait. Whenever I have been the pole sitter, I have always had a few looks at the map on the last 2 corners to make sure almost everybody was there. It is in my interest not to make the field too spread as, if I have to wait for too long on the last 2 corners, then my tyres would cool down too much.
Of course all must be within reason: you cannot leave a 10-car space in front of you. But 4 to 6 is perfectly fine. Just remember that when you get to the last 2 or 3 corners you should bunch up.
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I think nominating a top speed rather than 2nd gear would be more specific as to what needs to happen!
And keeping that speed down say 80Km/h should reduce the lag front front to rear of the field.
I think it's easier to stay in 2nd gear. It acts as a natural speed limiter, and you don't have to watch your speed at all. You can just do it by ear and keep your eyes on the cars around you. Experience shows it's not so easy to stick to a nominated speed on a formation lap.
Problem is no one is doing that Wally. I was in 5th trying to catch the gt3s in front on the straight after coming out of the chicane..
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I think nominating a top speed rather than 2nd gear would be more specific as to what needs to happen!
And keeping that speed down say 80Km/h should reduce the lag front front to rear of the field.
I think it's easier to stay in 2nd gear. It acts as a natural speed limiter, and you don't have to watch your speed at all. You can just do it by ear and keep your eyes on the cars around you. Experience shows it's not so easy to stick to a nominated speed on a formation lap.
Problem is no one is doing that Wally. I was in 5th trying to catch the gt3s in front on the straight after coming out of the chicane..
That's why I've reiterated the rule.
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What do you think about if Wally sets a spot during warm-up lap, maybe 3/4 or 2/3 where we have to shift down to gear 1 (which probably goes up to 90-100km/h with the GT3's anyway) and get into start formation and strictly adhere to it for the rest of the warm-up lap?
That may give everyone the time to catch up. Then accelerating & up-shifting after crossing start-finish line...and that for each car individually.
Just an idea...
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What do you think about if Wally sets a spot during warm-up lap, maybe 3/4 or 2/3 where we have to shift down to gear 1 (which probably goes up to 90-100km/h with the GT3's anyway) and get into start formation and strictly adhere to it for the rest of the warm-up lap?
That may give everyone the time to catch up. Then accelerating & up-shifting after crossing start-finish line...and that for each car individually.
Just an idea...
The rule is simple and it's not being followed, doing that will only complicate things further..
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Yes, the rule is very simple. The problem we have is that you can go 30k's in second gear and you can do 160.
Forcing the field into formation earlier and at a lower speed would probably help...and I don't think it would be complicated at all.
The problem we have is that everyone accelerates at different points in time. The leader gets onto start finish straight, maybe at a lower speed for the field to catch up, one guy in row 3 hits the gas pedal earlier and comes with so much momentum that he gets into turn one first...and , of course, he most likely doesn't even do it deliberately.
The faster you go, the later you get into formation and the less practise...the more complaints and discussions here.
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Forming up early is a good idea, but I'm wary of trying to negotiate too many corners two abreast. A good spot here at Shanghai is just after the second last corner - the tight right hander. That leaves a fairly wide left hander before the straight. I reckon we should form up after that penultimate corner.
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Yes, the rule is very simple. The problem we have is that you can go 30k's in second gear and you can do 160.
Forcing the field into formation earlier and at a lower speed would probably help...and I don't think it would be complicated at all.
The problem we have is that everyone accelerates at different points in time. The leader gets onto start finish straight, maybe at a lower speed for the field to catch up, one guy in row 3 hits the gas pedal earlier and comes with so much momentum that he gets into turn one first...and , of course, he most likely doesn't even do it deliberately.
The faster you go, the later you get into formation and the less practise...the more complaints and discussions here.
I reckon last week I was just speeding up to get into position as the Go Go Go was called and I powered on and flew past 3 cars......
Not intentional, just the way it worked out. I actually lifted a bit at first as others weren't going as quick.....
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Yes, the rule is very simple. The problem we have is that you can go 30k's in second gear and you can do 160.
Forcing the field into formation earlier and at a lower speed would probably help...and I don't think it would be complicated at all.
The problem we have is that everyone accelerates at different points in time. The leader gets onto start finish straight, maybe at a lower speed for the field to catch up, one guy in row 3 hits the gas pedal earlier and comes with so much momentum that he gets into turn one first...and , of course, he most likely doesn't even do it deliberately.
The faster you go, the later you get into formation and the less practise...the more complaints and discussions here.
I reckon last week I was just speeding up to get into position as the Go Go Go was called and I powered on and flew past 3 cars......
Not intentional, just the way it worked out. I actually lifted a bit at first as others weren't going as quick.....
That's where the problem occurs for the back of the field. When you were able to accelerate at the GOGOGO I still hadn't rounded the last turn. So I am already car lengths behind before I pass the start finish line.
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I still think speed should be limited rather than gear.. 80km max speed, if people can't follow that, they shouldn't be racing.
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I still think speed should be limited rather than gear.. 80km max speed, if people can't follow that, they shouldn't be racing.
It's not open for discussion - to avoid confusion the rule is clear - stay in 2nd gear.
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Here a nice and tidy rolling start...and, watch what happened then :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1n8F4uClUU
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I wondered how long it would take for that clip to show up. ;D ;D 8)
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Forming up early is a good idea, but I'm wary of trying to negotiate too many corners two abreast. A good spot here at Shanghai is just after the second last corner - the tight right hander. That leaves a fairly wide left hander before the straight. I reckon we should form up after that penultimate corner.
Yes, Wally. I think the key is forming up early. Going side by side through turns automatically slows the leaders down and produces a more compact starter field.
Larger gaps between rows disadvantage the guys at the back and they can be used to build up momentum before crossing start-finish line which can spoil the efforts the guys in front put into their qualifying.
I don't know what rules the guys in the GT World Cup have in place which produces such a compact starter field, but it seems to work.
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Here a nice and tidy rolling start...and, watch what happened then :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1n8F4uClUU
Macau is just a rubbish track.
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Tricky tack this. Especially T1. Is a challenge to get the right line through the long turns and get the best exit onto the straights. Add into the mix LMPs with heaps of grip overtaking on said turns will make it interesting ;D
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I still think speed should be limited rather than gear.. 80km max speed, if people can't follow that, they shouldn't be racing.
It's not open for discussion - to avoid confusion the rule is clear - stay in 2nd gear.
good then I expect everyone who is in a higher gear than 2nd to be given a first lap penalty ... otherwise those following this rule while the others speed off are at a massive disadvantage by being left behind at start of the race.
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I am not sure I understand: I thought the 2nd gear speed limit applied only to LMP1s, while the GT3s were supposed to be a bit on a higher gear to make sure they keep up right.
In any case: it looks like Wally and Shameless are talking about slightly different things. One thing is keeping the group decently bunched and getting into position before the last turn. Another is the fact that if there is a tight corner, the rows that are behind that corner at the GOGOGO will have a bit of a disadvantage.
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The point I originally raised was that the problem is that the GT3 Leaders are keeping up with the LMP cars. They should be sticking to their own formation lap pace controlled by the 2nd gear rule and the need to keep the field closely bunched. If the 2nd gear rule is followed by the GT3 cars then the GT3s won't be going basically flat out during the formation lap. I still suggest that a second GOGOGO occurs for GT3s to ensure the GT3s are in proper formation at the start.
One final point. If you watch the restarts after safety cars in the V8s and F1 races the lead car is responsible for controlling the pace and ensuring that that pace allows ALL cars to maintain a minimum gap to the car ahead. NONE of this is being done by our lead cars. They seem to be only concerned with keeping their tires heated and getting a good start for themselves. This responsibility on the leaders still exists even with the 2nd gear rule.
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To sum up and repeat:
LMP1s will go when the red lights go out, and then go no higher than 2nd gear. Keep as consistent a speed as possible.
GT3s will go 20 seconds later on a call from the GT3 leader (watch the race timer), and then do the same as the LMP1s, going no higher than 2nd gear.
Both groups independently form into grid formation after the 2nd last right hand corner, and both groups get a GO call from their leaders.
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The point I originally raised was that the problem is that the GT3 Leaders are keeping up with the LMP cars. They should be sticking to their own formation lap pace controlled by the 2nd gear rule and the need to keep the field closely bunched. If the 2nd gear rule is followed by the GT3 cars then the GT3s won't be going basically flat out during the formation lap. I still suggest that a second GOGOGO occurs for GT3s to ensure the GT3s are in proper formation at the start.
One final point. If you watch the restarts after safety cars in the V8s and F1 races the lead car is responsible for controlling the pace and ensuring that that pace allows ALL cars to maintain a minimum gap to the car ahead. NONE of this is being done by our lead cars. They seem to be only concerned with keeping their tires heated and getting a good start for themselves. This responsibility on the leaders still exists even with the 2nd gear rule.
I do not think your statement about V8s and F1 is correct. I highly doubt there is anything in Hamilton's mind other than tyres being warm, temps being right, and outsmart the guy behind him.
As for me, when I have been the leading car I was always at a speed low enough for everybody to be close to me and always slowed down to like 40km/h for the last two corners to make sure to get into formation. Warming up my tyres if anything makes me go very slow. I believe I have put 3rd gear a few times by mistake, but the total effect on speed of that must have been like .1second.
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To sum up and repeat:
LMP1s will go when the red lights go out, and then go no higher than 2nd gear. Keep as consistent a speed as possible.
GT3s will go 20 seconds later on a call from the GT3 leader (watch the race timer), and then do the same as the LMP1s, going no higher than 2nd gear.
Both groups independently form into grid formation after the 2nd last right hand corner, and both groups get a GO call from their leaders.
Wally: I won't be there, so I do not care too much. But be careful about creating too much gap between the two groups. We do not want a close LMP1 to need to lap a close GT3 pack. It's good if lapping starts after at least 5 or 6 laps when the packs got more open. I think saying that the GT3 leaders starts when it's time, but he is in charge of keeping his group packed and do a second GO is enough. No need for the initial 20 seconds.
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Hi Wally, sorry for the very late notice, but I have come down with a migraine headache and am in no fit condition to race tonight.
rob
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Hi Wally, sorry for the very late notice, but I have come down with a migraine headache and am in no fit condition to race tonight.
rob
Clearly not fit with the race being tomorrow Rob ;)
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Not that I think it's too likely me making it on pole, but if I do I'm in trouble,...one hand on the wheel (without buttons) one on the seq shifter...would have to get my missus to assist me pressing the PTT button on my button box :-[
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Hi Wally, sorry for the very late notice, but I have come down with a migraine headache and am in no fit condition to race tonight.
rob
Hope you're right for tomorrow Rob, I get lonely down the back :( Dave O.
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LOL, sorry guys, the headache is so bad I don't even know what day it is lol.
I'll be there TOMORROW to keep Dave O company.
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All's well that ends well Rob :)
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Sorry for late notice, can't make it tonight.
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Sorry to quit guys, not my usual style. But I still had the remnants of the migraine hanging around and I just couldn't keep my concentration. I was starting to be a danger to other drivers.
Bring on next week.
rob