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S19R2: Spa Race Chat

Author Topic: S19R2: Spa Race Chat  (Read 1185 times)

Offline Slow_As

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2017, 08:44:56 PM »
Out again this week - but new wheel has arrived so I'll be back next week - good luck all, quite jelly about missing spa :(

Offline AJ

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2017, 08:48:56 PM »
Out again also, been running around like a chook with its head chopped off today and only just got home.

Online Phil.8

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2017, 09:21:00 PM »
lost control when my car acted like it had hit a jump in eau rouge, aside from that the lmp cars are just annoying, pushing you off track limits , overtaking in spots that make you lose the optimal line and get more cut tracks ,  not fun at all having to watch your mirrors more than in front
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 09:28:57 PM by Phil.8 »
What if UFOs are just us from the future coming back in time to sight see?
Or might be to snatch women?
Tell 'em to bring some hoverboards back with 'em

youtube.com/watch?v=eOH15_pqWZ4

Online Wally

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2017, 11:52:38 AM »
lost control when my car acted like it had hit a jump in eau rouge, aside from that the lmp cars are just annoying, pushing you off track limits , overtaking in spots that make you lose the optimal line and get more cut tracks ,  not fun at all having to watch your mirrors more than in front
If you think someone in LMP1 has been too aggressive with their passes, it might be worth sending them a PM and pointing to a particular overtake. They might not even be aware of the impact their pass had.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Online grat

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2017, 05:56:33 PM »
lost control when my car acted like it had hit a jump in eau rouge, aside from that the lmp cars are just annoying, pushing you off track limits , overtaking in spots that make you lose the optimal line and get more cut tracks ,  not fun at all having to watch your mirrors more than in front
If you think someone in LMP1 has been too aggressive with their passes, it might be worth sending them a PM and pointing to a particular overtake. They might not even be aware of the impact their pass had.
Completely agree. I know you are not the type to complain about reasonable overtakes, so I got curious and went to check the replay from your perspective, but could not point out any particular one...

Online Phil.8

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2017, 08:44:01 PM »
lost control when my car acted like it had hit a jump in eau rouge, aside from that the lmp cars are just annoying, pushing you off track limits , overtaking in spots that make you lose the optimal line and get more cut tracks ,  not fun at all having to watch your mirrors more than in front
If you think someone in LMP1 has been too aggressive with their passes, it might be worth sending them a PM and pointing to a particular overtake. They might not even be aware of the impact their pass had.
Completely agree. I know you are not the type to complain about reasonable overtakes, so I got curious and went to check the replay from your perspective, but could not point out any particular one...

fair enough,  I must find it more annoying than most been not able to be on the line you want and getting off track,  the one that annoyed me was lap 7 or 8 at blanchimont when I could not get back online and was stuck on the inside for it
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 08:51:19 PM by Phil.8 »
What if UFOs are just us from the future coming back in time to sight see?
Or might be to snatch women?
Tell 'em to bring some hoverboards back with 'em

youtube.com/watch?v=eOH15_pqWZ4

Online Wally

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2017, 09:05:13 PM »
lost control when my car acted like it had hit a jump in eau rouge, aside from that the lmp cars are just annoying, pushing you off track limits , overtaking in spots that make you lose the optimal line and get more cut tracks ,  not fun at all having to watch your mirrors more than in front
If you think someone in LMP1 has been too aggressive with their passes, it might be worth sending them a PM and pointing to a particular overtake. They might not even be aware of the impact their pass had.
Completely agree. I know you are not the type to complain about reasonable overtakes, so I got curious and went to check the replay from your perspective, but could not point out any particular one...

fair enough,  I must find it more annoying than most been not able to be on the line you want and getting off track,  the one that annoyed me was lap 7 or 8 at blanchimont when I could not get back online and was stuck on the inside for it

The LMP1s shouldn't be forcing the GT3's to do anything, including going off the line or whatever. It's up to the LMP1s to find a pass when it's safe - i.e. on a decent straight stretch.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Online grat

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2017, 10:22:41 PM »
lost control when my car acted like it had hit a jump in eau rouge, aside from that the lmp cars are just annoying, pushing you off track limits , overtaking in spots that make you lose the optimal line and get more cut tracks ,  not fun at all having to watch your mirrors more than in front
If you think someone in LMP1 has been too aggressive with their passes, it might be worth sending them a PM and pointing to a particular overtake. They might not even be aware of the impact their pass had.
Completely agree. I know you are not the type to complain about reasonable overtakes, so I got curious and went to check the replay from your perspective, but could not point out any particular one...

fair enough,  I must find it more annoying than most been not able to be on the line you want and getting off track,  the one that annoyed me was lap 7 or 8 at blanchimont when I could not get back online and was stuck on the inside for it
Maybe I understood which one you are referring to. All I can say is that from the LMP1 perspective, everything happens so fast it is difficult to be completely sure. This race I was really taking a lot of care, and in the slow corners it was "easy" to just be patient and wait for a straight. But when I was approaching a GT3 or a group of them on one of the long straights (or Blanchimont) it was really a split second decision: right? left? If I brake I may just lose control and crash into them anyway.... oh, well. It passed. Phewww.

In one occasion, killagorilla spun just 5 meters ahead of me in the middle of Puhon. I managed to slow down and squeeze between him and the kerb, but honestly it was just luck. Too little time to react. To little understanding to know what to do.

The way I see it: it's a new challenge and we should all try to learn. For the GT3s it is a completely new world. For us in the LMP1, it is a puzzling thing, but perhaps slightly more normal. I guess we will all learn something from it which may be useful in future seasons too.

See you next Tuesday!

Online Bacchulum

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #68 on: October 25, 2017, 10:44:47 PM »
It's not easy passing in the LMP1 sometimes, here's 3 examples from my only race so far.

1. approaching 2 GT3's on Kemmel, one moves to left to let me pass, the other directly in front moves to the right, and I have to negotiate a chicane at 300kph as I'd already hit the boost, and I'm off track.

2. approaching a GT3 up Kemmel I stay glued to the right hand line through the kink (to indicate my intention). Just as I'm about to pass, the GT3 moves to the right (presumably to let me by) but runs me off the track (as I'm already alongside).

3. approaching a GT3 into a corner I hold back (rather than dive up the inside) and plan to pass on exit with boost, and ease, but the GT3 brakes whilst on line, on corner exit, forcing me off track to avoid.

I can't remember who they were, I don't care, but I'm not be forced off-line, I'm being forced off-track.
The caveat is all other encounters went fine and as expected.

Online Phil.8

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #69 on: October 25, 2017, 10:45:00 PM »
yes you are right, I will just enjoy the driving :)
What if UFOs are just us from the future coming back in time to sight see?
Or might be to snatch women?
Tell 'em to bring some hoverboards back with 'em

youtube.com/watch?v=eOH15_pqWZ4

Online Mael

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #70 on: October 25, 2017, 11:59:39 PM »
yes you are right, I will just enjoy the driving :)

You suppose to enjoy the challenge Phil not only the driving!

Would be a lot easier if the GT3 don't insist in circling the track in groups. Spread out guys! I was battling Kcender and coming up behind a group GT3. Decided to be smart and pit letting him lose time overtaking. But ironically I came out behind Dr Dinkum in a LMP and another bunch of GT3's, lost a lot of time.

Online kcender87

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2017, 11:02:03 AM »
To my mind its just a question of predictability when passing. LMP1 are so much more capable than the GT3s and can place the care basically where ever they want on a corner and not lose too much time - the GT3s (especially in fast corners) bog down and fall off the pace massively if they arent on line. From the cockpit of the LMP1, if I am coming up on a GT3, I am expecting them to be running their own race and I do not expect them to dive off line into the woods until I roll through on my line. I expect they will stay on line which allows me to plan a safe pass with the confidence that they will brake where they normally brake and place the car at certain points of the track so that when I shoot the LMP1 through that point of the track, a GT3 wont suddenly appear :P

I think the problems arise (maybe largely owing to the amount of discussion and concern around the topic) when a GT3 driver already caught up in running his own race catches a glimpse of a swarm of LMP1 cars approaching at a million miles an hour, doesnt want to be the cause of complaints / cause of a ruined LMP1 race and tries desperately to dive out of the way for them. From the LMP1 car we see an unpredictable big chunk of car doing strange things so we all start making poor decisions as a result then explosions happen and everyone dies / jumps on forums :P

Both classes are running their own races and both cannot reasonably be expected to give up 3 seconds slowing to a crawl then casually overtaking / allowing an overtake - especially 7 times per car per race. Secondly, the overtaking car is always in a better position to 'drive both cars' and determine when the overtake occurs and it should be their sole responsibility to execute this safely. This system begins to fail where LMP1 are unable to predict when the slower car is going to dive off line in a well intentioned attempt to allow the pass (which is appreciated). The overtaking car cannot then in any way predict when someone will dive off line and cannot safely plan an overtake resulting in split second decision making.

If GT3 drives its own race and stays on line, drives as fast as it can braking as per normal and turning in as per normal (unless a chuck of car is on the apex...you know...as you normally would), LMP1 can more easily determine safe passing moments that will not impact their race or require them to get off line - everyone wins...what could go wrong :P

Online Wally

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2017, 11:29:13 AM »
I agree... I know people are well intentioned when they move off the line for you to pass, but that can lead to unpredictability as you don't really know where the car is going to go. I find it easiest to pass GT3s when they just stay on their line, as then I know where the car is going to be, and I can be patient behind them waiting for room to pass.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Online Bacchulum

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2017, 11:40:25 AM »
The only exception to staying online is, for example, out of Radillion.
Exiting full to the right (out of Radillion), then going to the left (to open up the kink), then to the right (for the apex of the kink) then to the left again for the run down Kemmel.
That's the racing line, but if there's a prototype behind that will/did cause trouble.
Same issue on the run from Paul Frere to Blanchimont, where the racing line is side to side of the track.

But normally, keeping the racing line is much more predictable. ;)

Online grat

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Re: S19R2: Spa Race Chat
« Reply #74 on: October 26, 2017, 07:01:02 PM »
I agree with what Kcender and Bacchulum said. At most, a GT3 car can choose to brake a tiny bit early and retard turn in if it notices that the LMP1 has already initiated the pass---mostly to avoid having their line too compromised when the LMP1 car will have occupied the apex. But that's it.

Of course, as Bacchulum said, there are straights and kinks which get a bit more complicated. But even there, the rule seems simple to me: if the LMP1 chose the right side when you are occupying the left, and will for sure reach you by the next change of line, then of course just stay on the left side. It always requires a bit of judgement, but in no case you need to dive off the line all of a sudden. Just pick a side and stay there a little longer than optimal and it will be the LMP1 driver's responsibility to pass on the other side.