[rob]

I doubt that I will be driving the 599 again so I think I can give an unbiased opinion.

Isn't the whole idea of mixed class racing that different cars will have different strengths and weaknesses. There will always be faster cars that don't handle. If we keep weeding out the cars that hold up the faster drivers it will end up a one car spec race, with the fast guys way in front and the slow guys being lapped.

Wally's handicap system is in its infancy but given time I am sure that all the drivers will end up in the car that they deserve. This will give us close racing with plenty of challenges. We need to be patient to let Wally's system even out all the cars and drivers. If that means leaving the 599 in for the slower drivers so be it.

I know it's impractical, but a good handicap system means that ALL drivers have a chance to win.

And lets not forget that this is supposed to be fun. Its not all a bout winning, but about having a good time with hard fair racing with a bunch of great blokes.

Just my 2c worth.

rob

[Wally]

It's hard to pass ANY car, as I found. Not just the 599's.

[marty]

I know it's impractical, but a good handicap system means that ALL drivers have a chance to win.

And lets not forget that this is supposed to be fun. Its not all a bout winning, but about having a good time with hard fair racing with a bunch of great blokes.

A good handicap system gives all drivers a fair chance to compete, against a 599 there is no hope in an Evora and pretty much the same in the other gt cars on most tracks. Making those that can win in equal cars then have no chance after handicapping means its working great if that is the intention of the handicaps.

Its not even down to lap times its just that they get 3.5 seconds advantage down the straight so thats a pretty nice DRS zone they get every single lap. Exit the last turn next to them and thats how much time you lose by t1, if your less then 3 seconds ahead out of the last turn you will be behind into t1.

Get alongside at least once nearly every lap after getting back the 3.5 seconds lost down the straight to end up 3.5 seconds down into t1 again on the next lap, Priceless 

[Bird]

Marty, can you try and rephrase that 1st paragraph, please? I can't wrap my brain around it.

Btw reading others' opinions I recall the GTL times where we have raced all sorts of different cars all the time; small and nimble against big powerful hunks of metal...so I think I'll say suck it up and let Bruce have his fun, too

[Bruce]

ya gotta remember, that a slow driver will still be slow in the best car compared to a proficient driver in the same car...

If I out did the faster drivers in the slower cars in qual... then I would be hard to pass, until I stuff up, but the first part hasn't happened yet 

[Freezer]

Interestingly despite the advantage the 599's held at Mugello, 4 out of 5 drivers have them again for Spa.  So it cant have been that they were that fast overall it was just as mentioned previously the way they achieved their speed.  I also found them frustrating to be behind, but obviously the trick is to not get caught behind one...

[Wally]

Interestingly despite the advantage the 599's held at Mugello, 4 out of 5 drivers have them again for Spa.  So it cant have been that they were that fast overall it was just as mentioned previously the way they achieved their speed.  I also found them frustrating to be behind, but obviously the trick is to not get caught behind one...

That's because for some, even the 599 is not fast enough to get them mid pack.

Anyway, this thread is notabout the hhandicapping system, but whether to includethe 599.

[StanDaam]

I agree with Marty, they have too much straight line speed advantage. Tactics are great when you're trying to work out how much lead you need entering a straight to stay in front of another car at the end of the straight, but the 599 made that equation a bit crazy. Then like Marty said if you get 2 of them in front of you, you just give up.

[marty]

Interestingly despite the advantage the 599's held at Mugello, 4 out of 5 drivers have them again for Spa.  So it cant have been that they were that fast overall it was just as mentioned previously the way they achieved their speed.  I also found them frustrating to be behind, but obviously the trick is to not get caught behind one...

That's because for some, even the 599 is not fast enough to get them mid pack.

Anyway, this thread is notabout the hhandicapping system, but whether to includethe 599.

It would be good to see the lap times of the guys in 599's at Mugello in GT2 cars to see how they would have gone. I don't think lap time wise its a huge advantage especially for a non alien but head to head with other cars running similar lap times they are pretty much unbeatable on most tracks if your in a gt car. The 599 is also the only car in the field with active DRS which is the main reason why its so quick in a straight line.

[Matthew111]

Yeah i found the speed diference awkward, it was just so big in places lol and a few times down the straight i didnt even see them come up behind me they were that quick

[Schmittez]

Just did a few laps around Spa with the 599 and BMW.

Managed a 2:19.0** in the 599 and a 2:20.4** in the BMW with more in both cars if I could put in together better, Probably more gains in the BMW than the 599 at this stage, might change as I'm close to the BMW WR than I am to the 599 WR.

Currently Marty and Guy have times around the 2:20 mark in the Evora GTC but that will probably change once they really go for it.

I have managed to get in to the 2:19s at some stage in the MP4 12C, 458 GT2 and the M3 GT2 at some stage since 1.0 came out but they were set before about RC 1.0.5 and it feels like the grip level is different now but it might not be.

So the 599 isn't really a massive advantage to me unless I put in a lot of practise and get a decent amount better but, It looks like the lap times around going to be closer around spa than they were around Mugello for me at least.

[marty]

Here is a video of my full replay in race 2 sped up quite a bit to make it shorter, just to show what its like to be behind the 599's for those that didn't have the privilege.

I stopped early to try get away from them, you can see lap count on my name in the left corner along with live gaps to cars around. Also you can see the map and see how those 599's pull their gaps. Also note the cars banking up behind me and quite a few having an off as they weren't used to going as slow in some sections. My off on lap 17 was because the car in front slowed even more then I expected and lifting there in this car just gets it nasty loose so I beached it to avoid hitting him.

[youtube]F5dvNrBmzi4[/youtube]

[Bruce]

Marty, the computer says 'no', the video is private.

[Bacchulum]

Not being able to pass a car is one thing, doing 3/4 of the lap at 3/4 throttle is another.
When it did make a mistake, it took me out as I tried to pass (redressing only worked until the straight, then back to frustration).
My biased opinion is no.

[Bird]

We're divided on this issue...and I'm a bit on the fence with it, too.  Maybe I should remove my vote, it'd make it less divided, since I've voted "yes" after all.   I haven't been stuck behind one.

I think as I see it the problem is that the GT car behind is being held up by a car that can do 1-2s slower laps, only, so it should not be in front.  But that "slower" (by laptime) car has such enormous power that it'll always be back in front on the  straights .   It's a bit weird situation, although, as I said, it's not *that* different from what we had in GTL times...maybe it's a bit more accentuated here.


Edit: I've removed my vote, I'm really not decided.  I keep thinking it's good...then: it's bad...