[Wally]

After reading the discussion in this thread, I want to summarise here and make some suggestions for the way forward.

Damage
Gratulin asked if damage can be reduced. It's already only 60%. I don't want to reduce damage, agreeing with Marty that some degree of damage makes you more careful. There's more at stake. Damage is part of racing. I don't think that many people actually suffer significant damage in these opening lap incidents. The degree of damage is acceptable - there's some damage to give consequences to accidents, but not that much that your windscreen shatters if someone farts.

Measuring incidents
Too much work. You can't automate it without making mistakes and penalising some people unfairly. Some incidents are part of normal racing. I can technically only see contacts in the server logs after the race. It would be possible to give say a time penalty for contacts, but you'd have to automate who's at fault, the significance of the contact etc. Too hard, in my book.

Starting from the back of the grid as a penalty
I can't automate this - i.e. I can only fix the position of everybody, or nobody. It would have to be an honour system where someone doesn't qualify. It wouldn't make much sense in reverse grid races, where say if Guybrush is starting last anyway, he effectively gets no penalty.

Attitude (a bit of an aside)
A race is not over if you have an accident on lap 1. I prefer to see people getting on with it, putting their head down and making up ground, whether it's through speed or strategy. I am always trying to simulate some of the emotions of real racing - ups and downs, highs and lows, mental strength etc.

Redress (or safe track re-entry)
I like Gratulin's suggestion: If you are in an opening lap pile up - clear the track and don't move until every moving, non-impacted car is safely past you. In other words, don't be too hasty to get going again if that means you are just going to hit someone else in your desperation.

Start procedure
I like the idea of a rolling start, a full rolling lap as Chris suggested. There is an argument that it disadvantages those at the back of the pack, being left further behind, but that's got to be better than being involved in a pileup. Keep the speed up - not 80 kph, but no more than 120 kph, say. Practice starts aren't necessary - many of us have had over 100 Tuesday night races now. That should be plenty of practice!

So.............. where to?
Putting it altogether, this is what we'll try:

Rolling start. Full opening lap, as close to 120 kph as possible, leader calls "Go!" on teamspeak somewhere between the last start box and the start line. No overtaking before the start line.

Redress. If you're in a first lap accident with a pack behind you, you must clear the track and not rejoin until all fast-moving cars have passed.

Penalties. If you cause 2 first lap incidents or failures to adequately safely rejoin the track, then you get some significant penalty ballast just for the next race.

Video review. If people want to discuss incidents looking at videos for education, then I'm all for it. We could have a sub-forum. But I wouldn't base any penalties on this.

[Freezer]

I would agree with the 'Attitude' comments Wally.  I have had some of my best races coming back from a spin.  You are bound to get hit at some point, you just have to suck it up.
I don't like the rolling starts due to the penalising aspect.  There is little between these cars as it is so the extra gap gained just makes it harder.
I do agree with the penalty along the lines of causing an incident on T1 - 3 sees you start from the back in the next race.  In addition I think the redress rule has gone missing in that if you push someone off, you must wait for them to recover before resuming.

On the whole most of these early incidents have risen from relatively minor mistakes, but resulted in big consequences.  AC has played a role in that.
My two cents....

[Bird]

Sounds good, Wally!

Not sure how the "clear the track" will work in practice, though. 
I have waited at the last accident but that was mainly due to my really bad position relative to the track.  So if we'd say "don't re-enter until all cars have passed (that weren't in the accident)" : I could understand that, quite clearly.

But at what point do you need to clear the track if you were in an incident?  If you spin, trying to get off the track might be worse than sitting motionless.  If you are heading forwards after an accident, can you still get going and continue the race, or you need to get off the track (being slow/stationary)? 
So please clear this up.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

With the rolling start, do you need someone to say "go" on TS, or could you just do what happens in real life and that's everyone having to plant the foot as soon as they see the first car doing the same?

It's a shame we can't get the first few corners right as standing starts are more thrilling than rolling IMO.  Having said that, I don't think rolling starts will solve all our problems as there will still be a stand-still at Monza, etc. but hopefully they mitigate some of the risk.

Wally is it possible to get a time-stamp for contacts report?

[Simone]

Damage only at 60%.....cmon lets play at 80 and you see ppl slow down...but then ,,look i dont give a f...k but for me racing at 100% is a must,racing will be more exciting,more unpredictable,and more driver will have more chances for a podium,its the only medicine for our problem,it wont fix,it but thats the way guys....then hey....whatever!!

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Does anyone seriously think "oh, damage is only at 60% I can be less cautious now".  I don't think anyone drives around thinking about the damage level.  What happens, happens regardless of damage.  Like in public servers; damage only penalises those on the receiving end the more severe it gets as people will crash/wreck regardless.

[Gratulin]

Good set of recommendations Wally. I accept the attitude comment. However, with your recommendations it will be easier to cop the occasional incident with a better attitude.

[Wally]

The clearing track thing relies on your judgement. What it really means is ”don't see red and charge back onto the track”. Because the pack is close, just be extra aware of careful track re-entry. A bad track re-entry will be penalised.

Damage is at 60 since early on, mostly so you don't have to race with a broken windscreen if someone touches your rear bumper.

I'd rather have someone say go, rather than floor it when others do, otherwise you'll get someone mistakenly flooring it into the back of the car in front.

Like always, well try it and see how it works out.

[Bird]

... Having said that, I don't think rolling starts will solve all our problems as there will still be a stand-still at Monza, etc. ...

That's easy to solve: we just avoid Monza altogether!

Although, if we make a rule that cutting the chicane straight is OK it may work.

[Wally]

... Having said that, I don't think rolling starts will solve all our problems as there will still be a stand-still at Monza, etc. ...

That's easy to solve: we just avoid Monza altogether!

Although, if we make a rule that cutting the chicane straight is OK it may work.

I wouldn't mind a track mod that gets rid of that bloody chicane!

[marty]

The thing with the single file rolling start it really wont do much about t1. Everyone will also have colder tyres and more likely miss their brake point and still wreck a bunch of people ahead of them. Harsher penalties for collisions/poor re entry and not redressing be it grid penalty or ballast for next race I would prefer over removing the standing starts.

If a rolling start side by side rather then single file after all if guys cant run side by side at pace car speed what hope have they got in traffic at full speed trying to pass anyone.

Is Monza really that bad, Nurburgring caused just as much trouble and this was t3 with a clean t1 and 2. If it was a single file rolling start it could quite likely have had the exact same result there.

Starts at pretty much every track simply need more awareness by all. Allowing normal racing I think is best but if extra harsh penalties are given for first lap incidents then people should take more care. If you can pull a move off you should be allowed to but knowing if they mess it up it will cost them this race with points penalty and redress. Then also a grid or ballast penalty for next race then gaining 1 spot into t1 maybe isnt worth risking the result in the next race also.

My 2c again, Ive probably nearly spent a dollar in this discussion already. 

[Wally]

I think cars will be more spread out into T1 after a rolling start.  You will have to be aware if possibly cooler tyres.

We'll try it and see what happens.

[Wally]

And GB, I'll look at the contact report. There is contact information in the server log, but it doesn't say what lap it's on etc. But I can probably work it out. I used to produce a contact log in netKar, and check all the incidents, but there were usually only about 10 of us.

[StanDaam]

Good stuff Wally,
I don't mind an rolling start, get to spend a lap waving at the crowd, blowing kisses to the grid girls, quick mooning to GB then race. Lovely!! 

[Simone]

Cant wait to hear the voice of GB going...GO GO GO!!    I love you guys