Xtreme Gaming Network

Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on June 16, 2015, 10:11:35 PM

Title: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 16, 2015, 10:11:35 PM
Because of IPAS charge draining issues in the P1 here, for this round only, everyone will drive the Ferrari.

This is the round where we all swap to the other car for the remainder of the season.

Entry List
Bacchulum
Bafs17
christopheraser
Freezer
Gratulin
Grubbet
Guybrush Threepwood
Imperious
JamieP
Jeremy
Joe
Marty
Matthew111
Phil.8
RJM
Rob
Rolz
Shameless
Simone
StanDaam
UnFknBLievable
Vipergod
Wally
Ysu
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Gratulin on June 16, 2015, 10:50:04 PM
Wally, I'm going to sit out the rest of this season. I like driving these cars - just not in a race!!
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Bird on June 17, 2015, 08:38:26 AM
Wally, I'm going to sit out the rest of this season. I like driving these cars - just not in a race!!
I'm thinking a similar move; I like the Fezza in any situation. But not the P1.  Too low, need to push buttons all the time, etc...I'm here to have fun, not to struggle in a car I don't like :/

Add to that, I hate Monza with a passion. :)
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: StanDaam on June 17, 2015, 09:06:59 AM
I hate Monza with a passion. :)
Love Ferrari but hate Monza!! That's just wrong!! Thats like saying 'I love olives but hate fetta', sooo wrong town!!  ;D
(Did I mention I've been to Monza!!  :D)
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Joe on June 17, 2015, 09:19:53 AM
This is the race we switch cars right? Can someone explain what DRS is actually doing and when I should be using it?  :o
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 17, 2015, 11:18:36 AM
This is the race we switch cars right? Can someone explain what DRS is actually doing and when I should be using it?  :o

DRS just drops the rear wing to reduce drag, press the button as soon as your on the straight or even sooner just after apex in some turns to get the rear end loose and avoid understeer. The only way DRS is disabled is when you press the brake.

Wally, I'm going to sit out the rest of this season. I like driving these cars - just not in a race!!
I'm thinking a similar move; I like the Fezza in any situation. But not the P1.  Too low, need to push buttons all the time, etc...I'm here to have fun, not to struggle in a car I don't like :/

Add to that, I hate Monza with a passion. :)

Nice try Bird trying to keep the fastest car all season  ;) the p1 is a fun car to drive but passing any ferrari in it is far from easy. Monza surely will be the ferraris turf too along with mugello. P1 DRS is quite handy but even with it activated it still gives up speed down any straight and its quite a bit trickier into corners. Use TC or left foot brake holding some throttle on entry in that sim only style will also deplete the battery.

No idea what mid america motoplex is and donnington will likely favour the p1.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 17, 2015, 12:47:41 PM
Mid America is sort of middle of the road. Not particularly fast, not particularly twisty.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 17, 2015, 01:43:45 PM
Is that road america or another track? Ive never heard of it or seen the track in AC yet.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 17, 2015, 01:48:35 PM
Is that road america or another track? Ive never heard of it or seen the track in AC yet.

No, its a different track, one I'd never heard of.

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/mid-america-motorplex.6123/
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: christopheraser on June 18, 2015, 12:29:13 AM
I'm away on holidays next Monday. I will see you the following week.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: StanDaam on June 19, 2015, 09:00:17 AM
Can someone explain what DRS is actually doing and when I should be using it?  :o
You probably have it sussed by now but for anyone else switching over to the P1:
Go to Settings-->Controls-->Secondary and assign a button on your wheel for your DRS
Then get in game, in car and in the options down the right side of the screen, fire up the 'Electronics' to make sure your DRS is working.
Then press F1 or F2 until you find the rear view camera and just use that forever!!! Button then Brake!! Button then Brake!! Be Amazed!!
 :P
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: StanDaam on June 19, 2015, 09:21:38 AM
Gunna get ma post numbers up!!  ;D

Now about this dodgy P1... After the race on Tuesday, Jeremy was talking about the 'charge' display in car. So I dids a little bit of testing and it looks like he's right. I too seem to have this problem.
If you go in car view, on the right hand side of the dash is the 'Charge' display which starts out on 4 green bars and everything is working well. I then go out in hot lap mode, switch off all possible battery drains, ABS off, TC off, and don't even use DRS. After about 5 laps my 4 green bars have disappeared and when they go, you lose power. A lot of power... at least 20k's of power in the straights. Using the ghost car in hot laps clearly shows the difference.
I also tried this on the server and it seems to be the same.
Any one else notice this?  :'(
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 19, 2015, 09:38:58 AM
Stan is it possible your a left foot braker and hold some throttle on braking? If the batteries recharge on coast that technique is going to greatly reduce recharge. If the battery recharges on coast then you dont want to hold any throttle into the brake zone. I right foot brake with no tc and have never had any problems with battery charge over any race distance in the p1 yet.

I dont think ABS is a battery drain either just more likely if you dont fully lift off throttle on braking. Also I tend to threshold brake even with ABS on so it really doesnt kick in much but if your flooring the brake it could also be more of a drain if ABS is in use.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: StanDaam on June 19, 2015, 09:55:14 AM
Yeah I am a left foot braker...
And if I do have ABS available I'm flooring the brake pedal...
Any good news?
 :'(
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Joe on June 19, 2015, 09:59:04 AM
Haven't given the P1 a try yet but will give it a go tonight. I'm a right foot braker so will see what happens for me. Got my GTEye spring this week so planning on putting that in tonight  ;D
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: StanDaam on June 19, 2015, 10:04:50 AM
Good luck Joe. I recently went from my G25 to a G27, the first thing I did was scurry back and get my GTeye spring out of my G25 :D
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 19, 2015, 11:13:18 AM
Yeah I am a left foot braker...
And if I do have ABS available I'm flooring the brake pedal...
Any good news?
 :'(

Maybe good news for me being able to get my lafa ahead of you of I can manage to not F up a race.  ;D
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 19, 2015, 02:24:04 PM
Gunna get ma post numbers up!!  ;D

Now about this dodgy P1... After the race on Tuesday, Jeremy was talking about the 'charge' display in car. So I dids a little bit of testing and it looks like he's right. I too seem to have this problem.
If you go in car view, on the right hand side of the dash is the 'Charge' display which starts out on 4 green bars and everything is working well. I then go out in hot lap mode, switch off all possible battery drains, ABS off, TC off, and don't even use DRS. After about 5 laps my 4 green bars have disappeared and when they go, you lose power. A lot of power... at least 20k's of power in the straights. Using the ghost car in hot laps clearly shows the difference.
I also tried this on the server and it seems to be the same.
Any one else notice this?  :'(

Strange, I didn't notice that all in any of my P1 races. I'm a left foot braker too, and I had ABS and TC on, and used DRS wherever possible.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Joe on June 19, 2015, 11:04:27 PM
Gunna get ma post numbers up!!  ;D

Now about this dodgy P1... After the race on Tuesday, Jeremy was talking about the 'charge' display in car. So I dids a little bit of testing and it looks like he's right. I too seem to have this problem.
If you go in car view, on the right hand side of the dash is the 'Charge' display which starts out on 4 green bars and everything is working well. I then go out in hot lap mode, switch off all possible battery drains, ABS off, TC off, and don't even use DRS. After about 5 laps my 4 green bars have disappeared and when they go, you lose power. A lot of power... at least 20k's of power in the straights. Using the ghost car in hot laps clearly shows the difference.
I also tried this on the server and it seems to be the same.
Any one else notice this?  :'(

Gave the P1 a go tonight and yeah it sucks! (Also sounds shit compared to the Ferrari) With ABS and TC on, I can do two laps at Monza before the 'Charge' is completely gone, meaning I get one chance at a hotlap and then have to go back to the pits.

I tried with TC off and it seemed pretty much the same. With TC and ABS off I managed a couple more laps before it's fully drained, but like you say it's huge difference in power. Big enough that you need different brake markers.

Seems it charges from braking? I tried just cruising around with my left foot half on the brake for a while and it started to charge back up. I think the problem is Monza with the long straights it's just not enough braking to keep it charged.

On the plus side the GTEye brake spring is niiiiiiiiice...
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Bacchulum on June 19, 2015, 11:44:48 PM
The long straights and short braking zones will adversely affect the charging at Monza.
It's not charged by braking but by off throttle, so make sure you don't keep some throttle on during braking.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 20, 2015, 08:07:09 AM
Sounds like an interesting challenge in the P1. Hopefully racing there is doable.

I didn't think it sucked though. It feels quite different to the Ferrari, but it also feels more planted and corners better.


Hmmmm.... yes. I just tried it myself, and I got to lap 6 (left foot braking but with as much off-throttle as possible), but by then the IPAS charge wouldn't last, and drained rapidly, killing the top speed.

So I think for this round only, EVERYONE WILL DRIVE THE FERRARI.
(except Bird, who still has to drive the P1).
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 20, 2015, 08:34:11 AM
So much for my strategy choice of picking the p1 early, give up an advantage at some tracks to the lafa to get the better car for Monza and Mugello.  ;D

Wally I tried to run a lap at the MAM track in the p1 and the game was crashing, have you actually tried these cars there. I got the dl from the link you posted, if the track doesnt work luccaring is awesome in these cars.  ;)
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 20, 2015, 08:38:42 AM
Just reading about iPAS... it's a complicated thing! The real car has an iPAS button, as well as a boost mode that can be activated, and all systems interact together. Although Aris has said in the game, they model race mode of the car only, in which iPAS is automatic and always "on" (he also says "so so battery life": https://twitter.com/Aristotelis/status/557606615839686656 (https://twitter.com/Aristotelis/status/557606615839686656))

Its sounds like iPAS is only a button you'd press in real life for a short boost, not leave permanently on.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 20, 2015, 08:40:04 AM
So much for my strategy choice of picking the p1 early, give up an advantage at some tracks to the lafa to get the better car for Monza and Mugello.  ;D

Wally I tried to run a lap at the MAM track in the p1 and the game was crashing, have you actually tried these cars there. I got the dl from the link you posted, if the track doesnt work luccaring is awesome in these cars.  ;)

Yeah, I made the same strategic choice! But it would be a one-horse race - a prancing one.

Of course I tried the cars at MAM. I'll try again. Maybe there's been an update since I first tried it.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 20, 2015, 08:53:21 AM
Also which layout of mam would it be, I may need to try again but I downloaded it and the folder seemed to show 3 variants but ingame I think only 2 were shown, I tried the first layout option.  I will give it another go tonight but each time I tried it had the same crash error in the p1. I didnt try any other cars and that was just in hotlap mode.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 20, 2015, 08:56:07 AM
I just tried both cars, and no problems here. It's the long, GP version (just called "Mid America Motorplex" in the game). I have version 1.0 of the track. Maybe you need to re-download it.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Joe on June 20, 2015, 10:24:39 AM
I didn't think it sucked though. It feels quite different to the Ferrari, but it also feels more planted and corners better.

Yeah it doesn't suck, was just frustrated trying to do some laps and loosing power so quickly  :o
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on June 20, 2015, 11:26:10 AM
I would say the P1 issues aren't so much related to left foot braking but the nature of the circuit (Monza).  Well I didn't see any difference between left and right foot anyway, but then I don't hold both accelerator and brake on at the same time.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: StanDaam on June 20, 2015, 02:13:59 PM
So I think for this round only, EVERYONE WILL DRIVE THE FERRARI.
(except Bird, who still has to drive the P1).
Cheers Wally!!  :D
Might even get Gratulin and Bird back in...
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Gratulin on June 20, 2015, 02:16:52 PM
So I think for this round only, EVERYONE WILL DRIVE THE FERRARI.
(except Bird, who still has to drive the P1).
Cheers Wally!!  :D
Might even get Gratulin and Bird back in...
Ha! Read my mind. Which do I hate more - P1 or Monza?
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: StanDaam on June 20, 2015, 02:54:41 PM
So I think for this round only, EVERYONE WILL DRIVE THE FERRARI.
(except Bird, who still has to drive the P1).
Cheers Wally!!  :D
Might even get Gratulin and Bird back in...
Ha! Read my mind. Which do I hate more - P1 or Monza?
Hmmm... is a tricky one... Monza with it's long tradition of awesome slipstreaming tight close battles versus the P1 with it's dodgy trabi designed electrical system... hmmm... I reckon you must hate the P1 the most which means you have a little spot of loves for the Monza buried deep down in a place that only a psychologist can access under hypnosis...  ;D
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 21, 2015, 01:46:33 PM
I just did some testing in the P1 and Lafa here to check kers usage and recharge with the dev app. Quite interesting as the P1 stores way more kers or uses less not sure which vs the laferrari. However the Lafa can fully recharge from 0 by braking into t1 or nearly all other corners. The only way to full deplete the Lafa here is also to not brake into corners and even short cutting the first chicane it didnt fully deplete the kers into the 2nd chicane. Even light braking was enough to maintain enough kers where it will be easily fully recovered at some point during the lap.

Now the P1 is an interesting beast, here into the first turn from the hotlap start position it would get down to about 83% but very little recovery is made during the lap and even though it takes me till t1 on lap 6 to fully deplete the charge the only way to really recover is by having some slide on entry while coasting but even recovers some under braking while sliding but not by just braking as the Lafa gets charge back.

So by lap 6 using no TC but ABS it was starting to run out and I could never recover enough during the lap to make it down the long straights with kers power. So I went back to Spa to see how I went there and see if I could ever get back to 100% kers through recovery and so continue a long stint without needing to worry about losing kers energy. My regular running there was enough to full recover all kers lost into les combes exit or the next few turns, I was only getting down to around 80% during the laps but my recovery was enough to not worry about running out over any distance.

My style in the P1 is getting it quite loose so its always in a little slide at each corner and this works well for kers recovery in this at Spa, someone driving it much straighter or using TC will likely never recover enough energy and so even at Spa would likely have ran into troubles. The Lafa I think any track other then an Oval will likely never run out of kers but an interesting test would be at Jacksonville which would last longer with kers energy as I think the P1 would be more likley to recover some kers there but as its probably full throttle all the way with no braking the Lafa would run out fairly quickly.

I will test the other tracks we already ran to see if this would have been an issue for me but I didnt notice any energy issues at the races I ran. Mugello will be interesting but I think the energy will be easily recovered through the rest of the lap even if lots is lost down the main straight.

Anyone that was running out of kers at Spa likely kept the car too straight or was using TC, the P1 seems to need you to drive it with some slide angle in order to not have kers issues. Corners like Le combes into Rivage are enough for me to recover probably 30% of the P1 kers which is more then I would lose during the rest of the lap. These are corners where I coast a fair bit and get it sideways a bit too but anyone driving very much on throttle as much as possible and keeping the car more point and quirt probably wont recover as much even through such sections.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Phil.8 on June 21, 2015, 01:59:52 PM
To recharge the battery, the P1 uses the motor as a generator, by applying negative torque to it through its set of 3 clutches between the motor, engine and gearbox. That means it turns the motor backwards generating energy. As a generator the engine, depending on the RPM applied, can regenerate as little as a couple kW all the way up to roughly 120kW. Which would mean, at max kW it would take 3.4kWh / 120kW = 102s to fully recharge the battery.

It regenerates in _two_ ways:
1) The ECU applies negative torque to the motor, unless the battery is full, when you are off throttle. Some people call this "regenerative braking" but it is NOT! Because it does not depend on BRAKING. It simply depends on NO THROTTLE. To the driver, this simply feels like more engine braking than just the petrol engine would bring. The power taken depends on the motor speed, the gear and the power train mode the P1 is in. I did not ask for details but I guess the negative torque applied changes depending on power train mode, thus together with speed and gear it generates more or less power.
2) If you drive steady speed, the ECU will also, to regen, turn off the motor, then increase the engine torque and subtract that torque via negative torque applied to the motor, which will in turn generate energy stored in the battery. While driving the car you will notice this since the motor will rev higher without you asking for more power or the car speeding up.

The P1 DOES NOT however use REGENERATIVE BRAKING. What this means is, the negative torque applied to the motor does NOT CHANGE when you brake in order to keep brake-feel 100% based on mechanical braking instead of a mix of the two! They DID consider increasing negative torque when braking, but were concerned with brake feel so stepped away from the idea.

For an idea of how much energy the battery can truly regen via kinetic energy recuperation, in the vMax example above, when you lift off your foot from the throttle, the motor will generate about 100kW. It will not generate more in order not to do too much engine braking. It could do more and it will in certain circumstances, but the ECU would decide on roughly 100kW in that circumstance.


I just didnt drive it right, i didnt lift and coast enough
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 21, 2015, 02:05:12 PM
I tested Imola and Mugello in the P1, Interestingly I was a small net loss at Imola losing around 5% per lap and on a normal lap not being able to get back what was lost. At Mugello the only major kers drain is the main straight which gets me down to around 81% into t1 but the this can be easily recovered before the apex of t3 for me with regular driving. The rest of the lap its pretty even but slightly down into the last turn yet I get back to 100% before the apex there and then again down to around 82% down the straight which is fully recovered on a good t1 entry or some time just before turn in at t3.

There should be no issues at Mugello then for the P1 cars assuming TC isnt used, if someone wants to use it then best to test with the dev app to see how they are draining and recovering during the lap.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Simone on June 22, 2015, 06:31:44 PM
Sorry guys it looks like i cant make it for tomorrow :-\ see you next week,have fun!!
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Phil.8 on June 23, 2015, 10:05:34 AM
My exchange is being worked on and has wrecked my internet,  I wont be able to race if they dont fix it today :((((   Will let wally know how it is later if thats cool
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 23, 2015, 10:48:48 AM
EVERYONE WILL DRIVE THE FERRARI.
(except Bird, who still has to drive the P1).

Shame that there is no horn on the lafa would be nice if everyone could honk at Bird as they lap his battery depleted P1.  ;D

I still wonder why mclaren didnt also use braking regen for the battery as if the way the ferrari works is accurate there wouldnt be many tracks it would run into issues. Especially not if it was combined with the system they have atm.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Phil.8 on June 23, 2015, 01:15:20 PM
my internet seems better for now
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Joe on June 23, 2015, 01:33:50 PM
my internet seems better for now

Whoop whoop  8)
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 23, 2015, 01:53:10 PM
You're on the grid Phil in any case, but it sounds like you're sorted. At least the outage wasn't on Tuesday night *shakes fist at the internet*.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: StanDaam on June 23, 2015, 02:09:14 PM
*lights a candle at my QoS shrine  :P

Good to hear Phil!!  ;D
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 23, 2015, 02:34:04 PM
*lights a candle at my QoS shrine  :P

Good to hear Phil!!  ;D

I hope the shrine doesn't have kittens above the fire, but if it works then there are more then enough cats around already anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on June 23, 2015, 02:58:57 PM
You're on the grid Phil in any case, but it sounds like you're sorted. At least the outage wasn't on Tuesday night *shakes fist at the internet*.

Isn't the internet all around us, transcending time, space and religion?  Or is it inside of us all like the god that is in our heart? - in which case you must shake your fist inside yourself.

New low?
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 23, 2015, 03:15:58 PM
New low, but Im sure you will dig deeper soon enough.  ;D
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on June 23, 2015, 05:47:31 PM
New low, but Im sure you will dig deeper soon enough.  ;D

Thank you.  My sole is now at rest.

It's literally up on a recliner.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Rolz on June 23, 2015, 05:59:35 PM
Since I'm on the Ferarri and I have no setup for it... not even a previous race to start one... can anyone share one?

A winning one would be extra nice  ;D
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 23, 2015, 06:30:43 PM
Just chuck a bit more front camber on and drive it fast :)
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: marty on June 23, 2015, 07:11:08 PM
RJM is out tonight as he sent me a pm, maybe better to PM Wally :). Also I couldnt reply to him as his inbox is full.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Shameless_1 on June 23, 2015, 07:12:14 PM
Both myself and unfknblievable are pulling out of the season.. as said previously, I enjoy these cars but not in the race.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Bird on June 23, 2015, 07:38:31 PM
Sorry I just can't race tonight. I got a new bout of the flu.
I thought I will have more strength and Will Power, but alas not.  Have fun!
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 23, 2015, 07:39:12 PM
OK, no worries guys.

As for me... if it's got 4 wheels, I'll race it. I can't honestly see why you would like a car but not want to race it, but each to his own.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 23, 2015, 07:39:37 PM
Sorry I just can't race tonight. I got a new bout of the flu.
I thought I will have more strength and Will Power, but alas not.  Have fun!

OK, hope you get over it soon.
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: Wally on June 23, 2015, 07:44:55 PM
I'm just updating my video driver, before the race... what could possibly go wrong?
Title: Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
Post by: JamieP on June 26, 2015, 07:11:39 PM
Sorry I missed the race. I thought I was still on the standby list. I'll make sure I check the pre-race thread in future.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal