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S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat

Author Topic: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat  (Read 27850 times)

Offline StanDaam

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2015, 02:54:41 PM »
So I think for this round only, EVERYONE WILL DRIVE THE FERRARI.
(except Bird, who still has to drive the P1).
Cheers Wally!!  :D
Might even get Gratulin and Bird back in...
Ha! Read my mind. Which do I hate more - P1 or Monza?
Hmmm... is a tricky one... Monza with it's long tradition of awesome slipstreaming tight close battles versus the P1 with it's dodgy trabi designed electrical system... hmmm... I reckon you must hate the P1 the most which means you have a little spot of loves for the Monza buried deep down in a place that only a psychologist can access under hypnosis...  ;D

Offline marty

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2015, 01:46:33 PM »
I just did some testing in the P1 and Lafa here to check kers usage and recharge with the dev app. Quite interesting as the P1 stores way more kers or uses less not sure which vs the laferrari. However the Lafa can fully recharge from 0 by braking into t1 or nearly all other corners. The only way to full deplete the Lafa here is also to not brake into corners and even short cutting the first chicane it didnt fully deplete the kers into the 2nd chicane. Even light braking was enough to maintain enough kers where it will be easily fully recovered at some point during the lap.

Now the P1 is an interesting beast, here into the first turn from the hotlap start position it would get down to about 83% but very little recovery is made during the lap and even though it takes me till t1 on lap 6 to fully deplete the charge the only way to really recover is by having some slide on entry while coasting but even recovers some under braking while sliding but not by just braking as the Lafa gets charge back.

So by lap 6 using no TC but ABS it was starting to run out and I could never recover enough during the lap to make it down the long straights with kers power. So I went back to Spa to see how I went there and see if I could ever get back to 100% kers through recovery and so continue a long stint without needing to worry about losing kers energy. My regular running there was enough to full recover all kers lost into les combes exit or the next few turns, I was only getting down to around 80% during the laps but my recovery was enough to not worry about running out over any distance.

My style in the P1 is getting it quite loose so its always in a little slide at each corner and this works well for kers recovery in this at Spa, someone driving it much straighter or using TC will likely never recover enough energy and so even at Spa would likely have ran into troubles. The Lafa I think any track other then an Oval will likely never run out of kers but an interesting test would be at Jacksonville which would last longer with kers energy as I think the P1 would be more likley to recover some kers there but as its probably full throttle all the way with no braking the Lafa would run out fairly quickly.

I will test the other tracks we already ran to see if this would have been an issue for me but I didnt notice any energy issues at the races I ran. Mugello will be interesting but I think the energy will be easily recovered through the rest of the lap even if lots is lost down the main straight.

Anyone that was running out of kers at Spa likely kept the car too straight or was using TC, the P1 seems to need you to drive it with some slide angle in order to not have kers issues. Corners like Le combes into Rivage are enough for me to recover probably 30% of the P1 kers which is more then I would lose during the rest of the lap. These are corners where I coast a fair bit and get it sideways a bit too but anyone driving very much on throttle as much as possible and keeping the car more point and quirt probably wont recover as much even through such sections.

Offline Phil.8

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2015, 01:59:52 PM »
To recharge the battery, the P1 uses the motor as a generator, by applying negative torque to it through its set of 3 clutches between the motor, engine and gearbox. That means it turns the motor backwards generating energy. As a generator the engine, depending on the RPM applied, can regenerate as little as a couple kW all the way up to roughly 120kW. Which would mean, at max kW it would take 3.4kWh / 120kW = 102s to fully recharge the battery.

It regenerates in _two_ ways:
1) The ECU applies negative torque to the motor, unless the battery is full, when you are off throttle. Some people call this "regenerative braking" but it is NOT! Because it does not depend on BRAKING. It simply depends on NO THROTTLE. To the driver, this simply feels like more engine braking than just the petrol engine would bring. The power taken depends on the motor speed, the gear and the power train mode the P1 is in. I did not ask for details but I guess the negative torque applied changes depending on power train mode, thus together with speed and gear it generates more or less power.
2) If you drive steady speed, the ECU will also, to regen, turn off the motor, then increase the engine torque and subtract that torque via negative torque applied to the motor, which will in turn generate energy stored in the battery. While driving the car you will notice this since the motor will rev higher without you asking for more power or the car speeding up.

The P1 DOES NOT however use REGENERATIVE BRAKING. What this means is, the negative torque applied to the motor does NOT CHANGE when you brake in order to keep brake-feel 100% based on mechanical braking instead of a mix of the two! They DID consider increasing negative torque when braking, but were concerned with brake feel so stepped away from the idea.

For an idea of how much energy the battery can truly regen via kinetic energy recuperation, in the vMax example above, when you lift off your foot from the throttle, the motor will generate about 100kW. It will not generate more in order not to do too much engine braking. It could do more and it will in certain circumstances, but the ECU would decide on roughly 100kW in that circumstance.


I just didnt drive it right, i didnt lift and coast enough
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 02:03:39 PM by Phil.8 »
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older

Offline marty

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2015, 02:05:12 PM »
I tested Imola and Mugello in the P1, Interestingly I was a small net loss at Imola losing around 5% per lap and on a normal lap not being able to get back what was lost. At Mugello the only major kers drain is the main straight which gets me down to around 81% into t1 but the this can be easily recovered before the apex of t3 for me with regular driving. The rest of the lap its pretty even but slightly down into the last turn yet I get back to 100% before the apex there and then again down to around 82% down the straight which is fully recovered on a good t1 entry or some time just before turn in at t3.

There should be no issues at Mugello then for the P1 cars assuming TC isnt used, if someone wants to use it then best to test with the dev app to see how they are draining and recovering during the lap.

Offline Simone

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2015, 06:31:44 PM »
Sorry guys it looks like i cant make it for tomorrow :-\ see you next week,have fun!!

Offline Phil.8

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2015, 10:05:34 AM »
My exchange is being worked on and has wrecked my internet,  I wont be able to race if they dont fix it today :((((   Will let wally know how it is later if thats cool
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older

Offline marty

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2015, 10:48:48 AM »
EVERYONE WILL DRIVE THE FERRARI.
(except Bird, who still has to drive the P1).

Shame that there is no horn on the lafa would be nice if everyone could honk at Bird as they lap his battery depleted P1.  ;D

I still wonder why mclaren didnt also use braking regen for the battery as if the way the ferrari works is accurate there wouldnt be many tracks it would run into issues. Especially not if it was combined with the system they have atm.

Offline Phil.8

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2015, 01:15:20 PM »
my internet seems better for now
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older

Offline Joe

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2015, 01:33:50 PM »
my internet seems better for now

Whoop whoop  8)

Offline Wally

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2015, 01:53:10 PM »
You're on the grid Phil in any case, but it sounds like you're sorted. At least the outage wasn't on Tuesday night *shakes fist at the internet*.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline StanDaam

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2015, 02:09:14 PM »
*lights a candle at my QoS shrine  :P

Good to hear Phil!!  ;D

Offline marty

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2015, 02:34:04 PM »
*lights a candle at my QoS shrine  :P

Good to hear Phil!!  ;D

I hope the shrine doesn't have kittens above the fire, but if it works then there are more then enough cats around already anyway.  ;D

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2015, 02:58:57 PM »
You're on the grid Phil in any case, but it sounds like you're sorted. At least the outage wasn't on Tuesday night *shakes fist at the internet*.

Isn't the internet all around us, transcending time, space and religion?  Or is it inside of us all like the god that is in our heart? - in which case you must shake your fist inside yourself.

New low?

Offline marty

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2015, 03:15:58 PM »
New low, but Im sure you will dig deeper soon enough.  ;D

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: S7R5: Monza Pre-Race Chat
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2015, 05:47:31 PM »
New low, but Im sure you will dig deeper soon enough.  ;D

Thank you.  My sole is now at rest.

It's literally up on a recliner.

 

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