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General Category => Hardware & Reviews => Topic started by: rooshooter on September 21, 2018, 08:13:40 AM

Title: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on September 21, 2018, 08:13:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icYsbGEmQVM
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Bird on September 21, 2018, 09:09:11 AM
Here are all the reviews you can gorge on:
https://www.overclockers.com.au/news.php?id=1252557

Especially if you're like me and prefer reading at your own pace, rather than listening to the slomo review :)

What I find great is the ray-tracing performance. Check this out for a jaw to the floor:
( from the article: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_rtx_2080_founders_review,15.html )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx9Wz9FtKbw

This demo was real-time presented & recorded here (in 4k).   And previously it was rendered - quote from the article - "to achieve film quality at 1080p on 4 Tesla V100s, each with 16 GB of framebuffer"

But otherwise you can safely wait another generation IMO.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on September 21, 2018, 09:59:09 AM
My result 4K optimised , running on 1 st generation i7 CPU and is only 5 FPS slower than the test system in the above Tech Chap review.

Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 21, 2018, 10:58:18 AM
Most of the reviews I've seen on YouTube have the 1080ti and 2080 virtually identical, not worth an upgrade. Only the 2080ti with a jump in performance ~30% but over 70% price hike, again not worth it. Ray tracing is currently non existent and when it does get implemented is said to be a performance hog. As mentioned this is certainly a generation to skip, especially since the next gen 7nm stuff nvidia and AMD will possibly be out as early as next year, plus Intel gpus 2020?. Hardware Unboxed and GamersNexus on YouTube are good sources for game and hardware benchmark testing.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on September 21, 2018, 07:44:48 PM
I think the issue is that there is virtually nothing that has been optimised for these news cards from the ground up.  Personally, I don't care too much for ray tracing.  I want to see pure grunt that will propel me through AC at 90 FPS using 180 degree 8K VR.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 22, 2018, 08:50:44 AM
I think the issue is that there is virtually nothing that has been optimised for these news cards from the ground up.  Personally, I don't care too much for ray tracing.  I want to see pure grunt that will propel me through AC at 90 FPS using 180 degree 8K VR.
That probably means forking out for the 2080ti or waiting till next year, in the sweviver pimax review he said he had one on order, so worth waiting to see if it can do it, I think he said he has a 1080?
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Bird on September 22, 2018, 01:07:00 PM
I think the issue is that there is virtually nothing that has been optimised for these news cards from the ground up.  Personally, I don't care too much for ray tracing.  I want to see pure grunt that will propel me through AC at 90 FPS using 180 degree 8K VR.

Well, one o/c 1080Ti (eg mine is a Zotac Amp extreme) can do very well on one 4k screen, but 8k ... you probably need 2x something beefy in any case, maybe even 3x since performance does not scale linear with multiple cards.
But it might just be possible that some sort of o/c 2080 founders could get you there. 
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 13, 2019, 04:04:42 PM
Thinking of a 2080 Ti this one is good.

https://www.umart.com.au/Inno3D-Geforce-RTX-2080-Ti-X2-11G-OC-Graphics-Card_48288G.html

After suffering from a 18 hour eyestrain headache after last Tuesday night, caused by I hope, very low FPS, I have installed one of these. Gives me a 20% + increase in FPS and runs VERY quiet. Please note I think you will only get this improvement in FPS if running a 4K screen.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Joe on May 13, 2019, 06:20:30 PM
Good stuff Roo. Didn't you have a 1080 TI before? I thought that would easily handle 60fps on 4k
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 13, 2019, 08:44:18 PM
Good stuff Roo. Didn't you have a 1080 TI before? I thought that would easily handle 60fps on 4k
Correct Joe I was running the 1080Ti, but my system is  a new build with old parts I7 860 1st gen , only cost $500 to build not counting GPU cost and FPS would suffer under very loads and when running some Mod cars and tracks, and big fields on Tuesdays. CPU did not appear to be maxed out so I decided to go for the 2080Ti and it appears to have much improved the situation. 
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Phil.8 on May 13, 2019, 08:51:53 PM
looks like a decent price for a 2080ti
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Joe on May 13, 2019, 09:05:29 PM
CPU can make a surprising difference on fps more than I ever realized.

So what's happening to the 1080ti ?  ;)
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Bacchulum on May 13, 2019, 09:05:54 PM
Looks like half of what I spent on my entire PC (4 years ago). :o
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 13, 2019, 09:22:32 PM
CPU can make a surprising difference on fps more than I ever realized.

So what's happening to the 1080ti ?  ;)
I had no upgrade path for the CPU with my current mobo . I really find it hard to justify the cost of latest gen cpu/mobos. I am now going to build another PC which will meet WMR specs
https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/4039260/windows-10-mixed-reality-pc-hardware-guidelines and use the 1080ti in that , it will also be second hand parts, I only need a CPU and MOBO. I really like the specs on the HP Reverb WMR headset, and will use it for a VR setup.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on May 13, 2019, 09:54:18 PM
For me, the CPU is the thing to shell out on most because it has less significant impact on fps and so it will lay longer without upgrading, and most importantly needs a while new mobo of upgrading again.

GPU get the cheapest you can that will give you what you want as thats the thing being upgraded most often.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Joe on May 13, 2019, 10:01:13 PM
I upgraded from an i5 6500 to an i7 8700k and got a 30-40 fps increase depending on game. I then replaced the 970 with a used 1070 which gave me more then double the fps of the previous build
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 14, 2019, 08:30:25 AM
I will never forget going from playing Quake to playing Quake GL, with a 3Dfx Voodoo card  . This experience set in my mind forever that the GPU is King in a PC build, but I could be wwwwwwwrrrrrrrrong.


Voodoo Graphics PCI
A Diamond Monster 3D, using the Voodoo chipset

Towards the end of 1996, the cost of EDO DRAM dropped significantly and 3Dfx was able to enter the consumer PC hardware market with aggressive pricing compared to the few previous 3D graphics solutions for computers. Prior to affordable 3D hardware, games such as Doom and Quake had compelled video game players to move from their 80386s to 80486s, and then to the Pentium.[3]

A typical Voodoo Graphics PCI expansion card consisted of a DAC, a frame buffer processor and a texture mapping unit, along with 4 MB of EDO DRAM. The RAM and graphics processors operated at 50 MHz. It provided only 3D acceleration and as such the computer also needed a traditional video controller for conventional 2D software. A pass-through VGA cable daisy-chained the video controller to the Voodoo, which was itself connected to the monitor. The method used to engage the Voodoo's output circuitry varied between cards, with some using mechanical relays while others utilized purely electronic components. The mechanical relays emitted an audible "clicking" sound when they engaged and disengaged.

The Voodoo's primary competition was from PowerVR and Rendition. PowerVR produced a similar 3D-only add-on card with capable 3D support, although it was not comparable to Voodoo Graphics in either image quality or performance. 3Dfx saw intense competition in the market from cards that offered the combination of 2D and 3D acceleration. While these cards, such as Matrox Mystique, S3 ViRGE and ATI 3D Rage, offered inferior 3D acceleration, their lower cost and simplicity often appealed to OEM system builders. Rendition's Vérité V1000 was an integrated (3D+VGA) single-chip solution, but it did not have comparable 3D performance, and its 2D capabilities were considered merely adequate relative to other 2D cards of the time.
Glide API
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 14, 2019, 08:36:34 AM
Run this Benchmark
https://benchmark.unigine.com/superposition
 in 4K optimized and tell me your results. I am starting to question these benchmarks relevance to real world gaming, the result could be interesting.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 14, 2019, 09:00:46 AM
Run this Benchmark
https://benchmark.unigine.com/superposition
 in 4K optimized and tell me your results. I am starting to question these benchmarks relevance to real world gaming, the result could be interesting.
Yeah most of these benchmarks don't really relate to real world gaming, this one is primarily gpu and the cpu used makes little difference to scores, you can test this by locking frequency lower, or disable hyper threading in the bios.
 My 1080ti stock was around 9500(I think) with overclock and tweaks reaching 10000. You can also go into nvidia control panel and turn the 3d setting to best performance and gain a bit.
 CPU and ram clock speed matters more (in games) at lower resolutions and can affect the minimum fps, but if cpu is too slow/old can affect any resolution particularly high end gpus, you can check this by making sure the gpu is close to 100% usage in msi afterburner
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 14, 2019, 10:42:18 AM
Run this Benchmark
https://benchmark.unigine.com/superposition
 in 4K optimized and tell me your results. I am starting to question these benchmarks relevance to real world gaming, the result could be interesting.
Yeah most of these benchmarks don't really relate to real world gaming, this one is primarily gpu and the cpu used makes little difference to scores, you can test this by locking frequency lower, or disable hyper threading in the bios.
 My 1080ti stock was around 9500(I think) with overclock and tweaks reaching 10000. You can also go into nvidia control panel and turn the 3d setting to best performance and gain a bit.
 CPU and ram clock speed matters more (in games) at lower resolutions and can affect the minimum fps, but if cpu is too slow/old can affect any resolution particularly high end gpus, you can check this by making sure the gpu is close to 100% usage in msi afterburner
Thanks Bueller you have answered all the questions that were going around in my head :) I will have to upgrade to a more recent cpu :'(.
So why does my fps drop to 35 on the start grid with the current Tuesday content and 20+ cars (this was with the 1080ti) ? what can't the cpu cope with? i7 860 at 3.9gig.
I will try again with msi afterburner, will it log the highest gpu usage?
Thanks again. :)
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 14, 2019, 11:15:06 AM
AC being older relies more on clock speed/ipc than thread count, so it might explain the dips in fps. Try overclocking if you can (not sure about your cpu) maybe even disable hyperthreading if it allows you to gain more clock speed. With afterburner open, play your games then come back to it open the graph by pressing "detach" scroll down to see gpu usage. If it's below say 95% you're leaving gpu performance on the table and is most likely the cpu holding it back
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Bird on May 14, 2019, 12:33:56 PM
Run this Benchmark
https://benchmark.unigine.com/superposition
 in 4K optimized and tell me your results. I am starting to question these benchmarks relevance to real world gaming, the result could be interesting.

While benchmarks aren't "real" results, here's mine from a while back. 

CPU does matter, it's not worth saving too much on it.  You don't need the latest & greatest, but if it can't drive the GPU out to its full potential, then you're better off with a weaker GPU as well.

The key is matching components, but that's ridiculously hard to achieve, especially if you plan on upgrading GPUs down the line...
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 14, 2019, 01:37:14 PM
Thanks Bird and Bueller, my benchmark result was 10600 with 2080ti and 8700 with 1080ti. I also ran an offline race with the Tuesday car/track combo with 22 opponents , fps at start was 30fps, I then checked gpu usage with msi afterburner and found it had maxed out at 50% utilization :'( :'( :'( :'(. So after all this I am now convinced that I need a better CPU ;). I really can't complain this has been a great PC up untill now with this Tuesday combo. The i7 860 cost me $60 and the mobo $100  , now to decide what to upgrade to ::).

I will see tonight if my fps is high enough to race.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Wally on May 14, 2019, 01:44:46 PM
Do you have smoke up too high? The start of races can display a lot of smoke, and your system might struggle if the setting is too high.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 14, 2019, 02:39:54 PM
Do you have smoke up too high? The start of races can display a lot of smoke, and your system might struggle if the setting is too high.
Thanks Wally ,I have now turned everything down or off and get around 50 fps at  the start, I think other than the start it should be OK for to night
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 14, 2019, 04:17:05 PM
Wow 50%, vsync can play a part in capped gpu usage. Smoke, mirrors, background tasks eg; apps in game and desktop programs all affect the cpu usage (turn off as much as possible). Keep gpu intensive tasks high eg; resolution, aa. Even with 6700k I had minor similar issues at the start of a race and occasionally when the leader crossed the line during, probably just inherent with this sim.
 Upgrading your system though, assuming on a budget/second hand, go with at least an unlocked fourth gen i7 keeping your ram. Or 6th gen and up i7, ryzen r5 cpu needing some DDR4, maybe even an overclocked i5 6600k/7600k would be ok if the pc is mainly for these older sims but might still hold back a 2080ti a bit. If new then either an i7 8700k/9700k, ryzen 2600x, however ryzen 3000 is coming out soon. Also in afterburner settings you can turn on cpu usage graph and see if it is indeed pegged near 100%. ctrl+shft+esc to task manager, start up tab, disable unnecessary programs starting/running. Have a look through the process and services tabs and disable/stop anything you KNOW you don't need running
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 14, 2019, 05:31:28 PM
Thanks Bueller you are a champ :). I am now up to close to 60fps at the start. I did check cpu util and it is nowhere near 100% some cores hit 100% briefly but overall average is 60-70%, so I do not know what the go is, probably just too old to get the most out of a recent GPU.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 14, 2019, 06:41:52 PM
AC probably won't utilise the cpu but yours is probably not fast enough for a 2080ti, if you're getting 60 fps you should be good though
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Joe on May 14, 2019, 06:54:13 PM
Pccg do some mobo/CPU combos. Saving isnt huge but better than not. That's what I did when I got my 8700k.

Also Roo, GLQuake!!! I was in a Quake 1 clan and still remember the day I went and got my 4mb voodoo1 3dfx card and launched GLQuake and got transparent water. Was magical.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Bird on May 14, 2019, 06:55:26 PM
Thanks Bueller you are a champ :). I am now up to close to 60fps at the start. I did check cpu util and it is nowhere near 100% some cores hit 100% briefly but overall average is 60-70%, so I do not know what the go is, probably just too old to get the most out of a recent GPU.

You will only see high cpu usage on a few cores, maybe only one I reckon.  (I haven't checked)  Lots of games aren't good at using multiple cpu cores.   Hence an overclockable high-clocking cpu is better than one with 12 cores for gaming, still.

Also, it's somehow very hard to get 100% cpu even on one core, unless you're running something that's honed to stress the cpu.  (I've nfi exactly why, btw) I'll see what mine shows.
Edit: although 60-70% seems way too low
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 14, 2019, 07:08:46 PM
Thanks Bueller you are a champ :). I am now up to close to 60fps at the start. I did check cpu util and it is nowhere near 100% some cores hit 100% briefly but overall average is 60-70%, so I do not know what the go is, probably just too old to get the most out of a recent GPU.

You will only see high cpu usage on a few cores, maybe only one I reckon.  (I haven't checked)  Lots of games aren't good at using multiple cpu cores.   Hence an overclockable high-clocking cpu is better than one with 12 cores for gaming, still.

Also, it's somehow very hard to get 100% cpu even on one core, unless you're running something that's honed to stress the cpu.  (I've nfi exactly why, btw) I'll see what mine shows.
Yeah not AC, for some reason I was thinking of games more like bf5 where quad can easily be maxed out to 100%
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Bird on May 14, 2019, 07:42:54 PM
I've checked; AC can and does use multiple cores. 
I can see it appearing on all cores, essentially.  Nice!
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 15, 2019, 06:52:26 AM
I have decided to wait for the Ryzen 3000 before upgrading.
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: Joe on May 15, 2019, 09:31:35 AM
I have decided to wait for the Ryzen 3000 before upgrading.

Just make sure you remember all the RGB lighting when you do  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/7D1jmjzl.jpg)
Title: Re: RTX 2080 review
Post by: rooshooter on May 15, 2019, 12:25:00 PM
Looks very nice Joe 8).
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