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Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on May 08, 2019, 08:01:45 PM

Title: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 08, 2019, 08:01:45 PM
Congratulations to Kcender on the clean sweep - pole, fastest race laps and 3 wins - which sees him take a clear lead in the season standings.

RACE 1 RESULTS (https://xgnassettocorsa.blogspot.com/2019/05/s28r2-gpl-67-at-suzuka-race-1.html)
RACE 2 RESULTS (https://xgnassettocorsa.blogspot.com/2019/05/s28r2-gpl-67-at-suzuka-race-2.html)
RACE 3 RESULTS (https://xgnassettocorsa.blogspot.com/2019/05/s28r2-gpl-67-at-suzuka-race-3.html)
SEASON STANDINGS (https://xgnassettocorsa.blogspot.com/2019/05/season-28-standings.html)
SEASON STATS (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nu52lWM6_TIRBEGCTF32BxLe8mobfsCFpd_wOeuxpXI/edit?usp=sharing)

Round Points
Kcender87   129
Guybrush Threepwood   112
Phil.8   110
Freezer   100
Bacchulum   94
Mael   78
buellersdayoff   78
Joe   68
killagorilla   68
Wally   64
ab156   62
AGK   54
Bird   54
bradc   46
Seanus   32
Dave O   32
Simone   22
rooshooter   20
Doobs   12
Rob   8

Lap 1 Penalties

Race 1
Joe ran into the back of Guybrush, and while Guybrush wasn’t impacted too much, I caused a pile up of cars behind Joe, so that’s a 30kg penalty.
Tricky one: Seanus just passed Brad, but then braked when very close to Brad who did move a little towards Seanus. Wheels touched and Seanus went off, but I’ll judge that to be a racing incident because Brad probably didn’t have time to react when Seanus braked so soon after passing.Update: 30kg penalty for Brad.

Race 2
Bird ran into the back of AGK – 30kg penalty.

In the same place as Bird, Bueller ran into the back of Killa – 30kg penalty.

Brad ran into the rear wheel of Bird under brakes. Although Bird was starting to turn in, Brad wasn’t far up enough – 30 kg penalty.

Race 3
Simone ran into the back of Brad – 30kg penalty.

Season Standings
1. Kcender87, 129
2. Bacchulum & Guybrush Threepwood, 112
3. Phil.8, 110

In the team standings, Aleph Null Pty Ltd (Bacchulum and Seanus) lead both Krahl Racing (Phil & Joe) and Maki Engineering (Mael & Freezer) who are tied, 198 pts to 178 pts.



3 x 9 laps.

Weather: 19, 25, 26

Track: http://www.mediafire.com/file/73urca5gf5hraua/Suzuka+Circuit+1988+v1.5+by+SBB+project.7z (http://www.mediafire.com/file/73urca5gf5hraua/Suzuka+Circuit+1988+v1.5+by+SBB+project.7z)

You will also need Seanus' extra pits mod: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7njB-Dpyz_nB_sOq1N0TWiQxW8kYKbv/view (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L7njB-Dpyz_nB_sOq1N0TWiQxW8kYKbv/view)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Freezer on May 09, 2019, 09:10:43 AM
Turned a few laps last night.  This will be a far more technical challenge than Hockenheim which was mostly a drag race!!
Some practice time will be well worth it :)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 09, 2019, 09:16:10 PM
Shyte, you're not wrong, it's technical all right - and bumpy!  Flying in the last corner at those speeds...farkennel.
There'll be lots of tears here I think.

Big thanks to Bueller for the setup - it has made all the difference, gave me the confidence to push, thanks mate!  I've changed the gearing a bit, the preload to 10nm and the brakes (man I can't imagine how can you stop with such a forwards brake bias!) but nothing else.

I'm wondering what kind of setup you guys are driving...if you don't mind to share, please upload it on the test server.   For example, I remember, Guybrush, you've made a few really good sets! ;)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: RussG on May 09, 2019, 10:43:06 PM
I will be away for 2 weeks having a well earned holiday  ;D ;D
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on May 09, 2019, 10:44:06 PM
What's the best way to share setups?
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Ablearcher83 on May 10, 2019, 06:37:10 AM
What's the best way to share setups?
pTracker or the ini file uploaded to the forum as an attachment.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 10, 2019, 07:16:17 AM
Shyte, you're not wrong, it's technical all right - and bumpy!  Flying in the last corner at those speeds...farkennel.
There'll be lots of tears here I think.

Big thanks to Bueller for the setup - it has made all the difference, gave me the confidence to push, thanks mate!  I've changed the gearing a bit, the preload to 10nm and the brakes (man I can't imagine how can you stop with such a forwards brake bias!) but nothing else.

I'm wondering what kind of setup you guys are driving...if you don't mind to share, please upload it on the test server.   For example, I remember, Guybrush, you've made a few really good sets! ;)
Well I did say it was a wip lol, that last corner is scary I'm getting wheels off the ground there. I think I'll change to the Fezza though
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on May 10, 2019, 08:43:11 AM
I haven't really had any time on the track and will only be home Sunday night and then away until race night so I'll see if I can run a few laps Sunday, make some tweaks and then post a setup then.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Mael on May 11, 2019, 06:23:54 PM
Shyte, you're not wrong, it's technical all right - and bumpy!  Flying in the last corner at those speeds...farkennel.
There'll be lots of tears here I think.

No truer words has been spoken  ;D

After some practice I managed a half decent lap. Hitting apexes, smooth out of corners thinking "This is a great lap"......only to see I'm 5 seconds off the pace  :o
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bacchulum on May 11, 2019, 07:14:00 PM
There's your problem Mael, I've found the quickest way is:

"SHIT! I've missed my braking point!"
"How the f@#k did I hit the apex?"
"Ooohhh, I just caught that oversteer"
(repeat)
 ;) :P
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 12, 2019, 09:06:06 AM
That last corner is a doozy, that rewards courage, bravery and a little bit of craziness.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: rooshooter on May 12, 2019, 09:18:59 AM
I could practice this track for a year and still not get it right :'( :'( :'(.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Simone on May 12, 2019, 11:30:53 AM
hey Guys!!  Has anyone a brabham set up to try it?
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Phil.8 on May 12, 2019, 05:16:39 PM
hey Guys!!  Has anyone a brabham set up to try it?

here is mine
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on May 12, 2019, 06:24:52 PM

I'm wondering what kind of setup you guys are driving...if you don't mind to share, please upload it on the test server.   For example, I remember, Guybrush, you've made a few really good sets! ;)

I've posted a Fez setup on ptracker.  I think I did it right. Haven't ran any laps really but will try to get on later tonight.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Simone on May 13, 2019, 11:58:43 AM
Thx a lot Phil i will give it a go tonight,also i would like to try the guybrush set he posted on ptracker......but i cant see it!!  hahahaaa   where is it?   ::)

thx again
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 14, 2019, 06:18:24 PM
Server's up.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 14, 2019, 10:01:53 PM
Well, it was great racing until I got disconnected.  Really annoying as I was having a great night.  But this is autosport; shit happens. ;)

R1 wasn't too eventful, there was some shuffle in the first coners, picked up a couple of spots, then stayed there between Wally and AGK the whole race.

However....

In R2 I've tapped the rear of AGK going into the hairpin - apologies - and as I've re-dressed, dropped a few spots nicely.   Then I got hit from the rear myself a few corners later, luckily not too badly - but the car felt a bit funny. 
Then as I've worked hard to catch up - it was a fantastic racing experience!
The last few laps of R2 were absolutely bonkers, overtaking, capitalising mistakes, it was all there. 
Loved it.

Many tanks for the setup GB, as I got more used to it, I was able to make it work very nicely!

Thanks for all the racing, gents!
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 14, 2019, 10:31:25 PM
Great racing thanks guys. Very sorry to killa for the tap into hairpin on qualifying and r2. Hope I didn't cause any other drama during the races.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Freezer on May 14, 2019, 10:37:48 PM
Well each race for me tonight was pretty much, get a clean start, fall in behind the front few guys and try
and keep it on track!   I had a few wide moments here and there but survived them.  I didn't have the pace to catch
the front guys but seemed to be able to hold a gap to the rest of the pack.
Only tangle was with Killa near the end of the last race when I think he missed his brake marker at T1 and
sailed up the inside of me taking us both to the sand.  Luckily I was able to get going without dropping
as spot but in my panic I was a bit out of control and let Beuller through in the dying bends!
Car went from feeling really tricky in r1, to feeling really good in the last one . . was a good night!
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Joe on May 14, 2019, 10:51:57 PM
I had good pace tonight qualifying 3rd but a few minor mistakes lost quite a few positions.

R1 tapping gb through t1/t2 turned me around and lost 10 or so places. Sorry if anyone else was caught up in that.

R2 was pretty decent I think I came 6th chasing bacculum at the end for a photo finish.

R3 I ran into bacculum. Not quite sure how it happened but he seemed to slow more than i expected in front of me and I was already back on the power and couldn't do much. That lost me a few positions then a  bit later fighting with Mael I caught the grass on the I inside of the final turn pushing me out and into the wall.

Awesome racing all round though.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 14, 2019, 11:04:27 PM
Results are up in the 1st post.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Freezer on May 14, 2019, 11:20:02 PM
Results are up in the 1st post.
Not a biggy, but are the +/- change numbers out in the standings.  I was 10th after the first round, and now with this
round being better (5th), first round dropped.  But shows -1 change, not +5.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: killagorilla on May 14, 2019, 11:27:04 PM
Well each race for me tonight was pretty much, get a clean start, fall in behind the front few guys and try
and keep it on track!   I had a few wide moments here and there but survived them.  I didn't have the pace to catch
the front guys but seemed to be able to hold a gap to the rest of the pack.
Only tangle was with Killa near the end of the last race when I think he missed his brake marker at T1 and
sailed up the inside of me taking us both to the sand.  Luckily I was able to get going without dropping
as spot but in my panic I was a bit out of control and let Beuller through in the dying bends!
Car went from feeling really tricky in r1, to feeling really good in the last one . . was a good night!
Yeah, I didn't intend to pass you...dunno, maybe I was surprised about you braking a bit earlier than expected...guess I then braked too hard in panic, locked up of course and that made it worse. The right guy got punished...me idiot...the only race where I didn't get taken out and I, a good result in sight, f** it up in the last round :-(
Sorry
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Freezer on May 14, 2019, 11:34:54 PM
Well each race for me tonight was pretty much, get a clean start, fall in behind the front few guys and try
and keep it on track!   I had a few wide moments here and there but survived them.  I didn't have the pace to catch
the front guys but seemed to be able to hold a gap to the rest of the pack.
Only tangle was with Killa near the end of the last race when I think he missed his brake marker at T1 and
sailed up the inside of me taking us both to the sand.  Luckily I was able to get going without dropping
as spot but in my panic I was a bit out of control and let Beuller through in the dying bends!
Car went from feeling really tricky in r1, to feeling really good in the last one . . was a good night!
Yeah, I didn't intend to pass you...dunno, maybe I was surprised about you braking a bit earlier than expected...guess I then braked too hard in panic, locked up of course and that made it worse. The right guy got punished...me idiot...the only race where I didn't get taken out and I, a good result in sight, f** it up in the last round :-(
Sorry
All good Killa . . . it happens!
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 14, 2019, 11:35:05 PM
Results are up in the 1st post.
Not a biggy, but are the +/- change numbers out in the standings.  I was 10th after the first round, and now with this
round being better (5th), first round dropped.  But shows -1 change, not +5.
It was a test to see if anybody looked at that ;)
Fixed - thanks.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 14, 2019, 11:38:36 PM
First couple of races, I made too many stupid unforced errors to throw away several positions each time. Dunno... maybe my concentration wasn't quite up to it tonight. The last race was better. All races had lots of action though, and some nice close finishes (0.013 behind AB in race 2, and then again 0.164 in race 3). Like Freezer noted, the car seemed to feel better in the later races (or I was just getting more used to it).
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: rooshooter on May 15, 2019, 06:49:08 AM
Mixed bag for me, R1 I realised I really should have done more practice. R2  CM would not show Race Server had to join through Steam and forgot to load Controls setup , pitted and watched some very entertaining racing onboard with quite a few people :) 8). R3 I also felt much more comfortable in the car and realised that I could relax a bit and still drive just as fast.
Still a very good night.

NB. Thanks to all the people who helped get my FPS up, it was 65 at start from the back of grid and 75 to 90 during the race.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: ab156 on May 15, 2019, 08:40:40 AM
Bad results, good racing.

Messed up qualifying so started few positions further back than hoped.

R1 - innocent party in the T2 mess.  Looking ahead, could see the incident, took a safe line, got ploughed into from the inside.  Back to 15th or something.  Made it to T9, was well inside Joe leaving plenty of room, got ploughed into.  On the replay it was clearly a combination of Joe trying to recover the car after a slight excursion and the collision box issue.  Not intentional so race on.  Now last, by a margin.  Had fun coming back through the pack, pretty hard to set up a pass so a few multi-lap efforts required.

R2 - a bit cleaner, a few own goals due to pushing too hard to try and get a good starting position for R3.  Had my first encounter with Mael and his bloody Honda :) finally spooked him into going off at the hairpin after about 4 laps of racing with Joe adding further entertainment.  Caught Wally with 1/2 a lap to go, timed the slipstream perfectly (my story) to make the most of the long nose on the Eagle and beat him by about 2cm.  Good racing all around.

R3 - again, just trying to make it up the field, made it to Freezer then went off losing a few positions.  Pretty annoyed by this stage.  Got some clear track on the last lap and was going for it, I was over 1 second up on my best time when I went off at spoon and let a few people back past.  Would have been a high 1:05, what the hell had I been doing the rest of the night.  More time in the seat required with these cars to really get comfortable and get close to the limit.

It is good racing, hoping the more open layout at Spa will bring better fortune. 
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Simone on May 15, 2019, 08:44:44 AM
Great racing with these cars,this time i put some laps and definately i had more fun with some more competitive pace,also in race 2 i had my pb. Hey Brad sorry for the hit,,,,,WOW!!    cant believe i am still doing these sort of things   lol    my bad.   
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Joe on May 15, 2019, 08:48:37 AM
Made it to T9, was well inside Joe leaving plenty of room, got ploughed into. 

I think I remember this but thought it was Seanus. The car got squirrelly on exit when I put the power down and lost some traction and it moved slightly over to the right. Sorry but had every intention of giving room and there wasn't much I could do; 'ploughed into' doesn't really describe what happened IMO.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Mael on May 15, 2019, 02:57:29 PM
Really good night of racing, helped a lot by a lot of luck at the start of every race as I had no real contact and made several position from other drivers misfortunes. Also found it helpful that the Suzuka track is a very difficult place to pass, any pass take either a mistake from the leading car or a lot of bravery. Seeing drivers four wheel drifting around the outside making the pass was spectacular.

Race 3 joined Wally on the "Unforced Errors" list as the busy races started to take a toll on my concentration  ;D
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: bradc on May 15, 2019, 05:19:10 PM
...Tricky one: Seanus just passed Brad, but then braked when very close to Brad who did move a little towards Seanus. Wheels touched and Seanus went off, but I’ll judge that to be a racing incident because Brad probably didn’t have time to react when Seanus braked so soon after passing....

I relied on you last night Wally to keep my cool, as that incident happened I was fit to burst, but told myself that someone was getting a penalty, and now I've been let down.
Came out of Spoon, Bradc was slowish and I gained fast, chose the right side which was almost a mistake as the gap closed, I think I may have taken some grass. Now I need to negotiate 130R possibly two abreast. Brake at some point only to see in 'car radar' that it seemed like Bradc was tucking in for the slipstream and that was never going to work.

The incident itself is trivial, similar stuff happens all the time, but I feel somewhat aggrieved by the following decision.

And it's all good bradc,  :) ;) :D We ended up in one or two battles through the rest of the night.

Seems I feel I need to reply. Trying to pass two wide on the approach of 130R is never going to work...yep we've had a lot of good clean battles in the past but on this instance from where I was sitting you just put yourself in a dangerous position and left me no racing room. I'm sure in most other mods the contact would never have happened, but these old cars move a lot and we just need to give them room. Heck I was caught up in a similar instance (and penalised) in race 2 because I didn't give racing room which resulted in contact because on corner entry there was a bloody wide gap which then disappeared because the car in front of me took a line I wasn't expecting them to take coming into the end of the spoon curve.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on May 15, 2019, 06:02:58 PM
...Tricky one: Seanus just passed Brad, but then braked when very close to Brad who did move a little towards Seanus. Wheels touched and Seanus went off, but I’ll judge that to be a racing incident because Brad probably didn’t have time to react when Seanus braked so soon after passing....

I relied on you last night Wally to keep my cool, as that incident happened I was fit to burst, but told myself that someone was getting a penalty, and now I've been let down.
Came out of Spoon, Bradc was slowish and I gained fast, chose the right side which was almost a mistake as the gap closed, I think I may have taken some grass. Now I need to negotiate 130R possibly two abreast. Brake at some point only to see in 'car radar' that it seemed like Bradc was tucking in for the slipstream and that was never going to work.

The incident itself is trivial, similar stuff happens all the time, but I feel somewhat aggrieved by the following decision.

And it's all good bradc,  :) ;) :D We ended up in one or two battles through the rest of the night.

Sounds like if you were on the outside of someone going into 130R then you were on a hiding to nothing.

Got to accept the ruling and move on.  It sounds like almost everyone has been involved in an incident with these cars. Good to hear the racing was great for the rest of the time though.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bacchulum on May 15, 2019, 07:21:09 PM
Something similar happened to me.
The car behind got a better run through the last corner, so I held my line and gave them the inside.
On approach to T1, maybe they were ahead maybe not quite, but they moved left (to open up the corner) and braked leaving me no where to go.
Needless to say there was contact, but I'd hooked the car left into the sand trap and only tapped them lightly, but I lost 2 spots.

Pulling in behind/in front of someone right on the brake zone is always going to end in tears.
We all need to leave room, and these cars require just a bit more.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 15, 2019, 07:57:25 PM
Something similar happened to me.
The car behind got a better run through the last corner, so I held my line and gave them the inside.
On approach to T1, maybe they were ahead maybe not quite, but they moved left (to open up the corner) and braked leaving me no where to go.
Needless to say there was contact, but I'd hooked the car left into the sand trap and only tapped them lightly, but I lost 2 spots.

Pulling in behind/in front of someone right on the brake zone is always going to end in tears.
We all need to leave room, and these cars require just a bit more.
I think that was me, sorry. I had excess slip stream speed to wash off before the turn and felt I had to brake a little earlier (maybe too much, again sorry). Also two wide into almost any turn, particularly the fast ones, will end in tears when people still use their normal brake marker, we've seen this time and time again, personally when someone goes up the inside of me I'll back out a bit to make sure I still keep racing. What I did was not optimal I know, assuming my opponent would do what I do in the same situation, which creates another problem in itself.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 15, 2019, 09:01:51 PM
...Tricky one: Seanus just passed Brad, but then braked when very close to Brad who did move a little towards Seanus. Wheels touched and Seanus went off, but I’ll judge that to be a racing incident because Brad probably didn’t have time to react when Seanus braked so soon after passing....

I relied on you last night Wally to keep my cool, as that incident happened I was fit to burst, but told myself that someone was getting a penalty, and now I've been let down.
Came out of Spoon, Bradc was slowish and I gained fast, chose the right side which was almost a mistake as the gap closed, I think I may have taken some grass. Now I need to negotiate 130R possibly two abreast. Brake at some point only to see in 'car radar' that it seemed like Bradc was tucking in for the slipstream and that was never going to work.

The incident itself is trivial, similar stuff happens all the time, but I feel somewhat aggrieved by the following decision.

And it's all good bradc,  :) ;) :D We ended up in one or two battles through the rest of the night.
Like I said, it was a tricky one. I thought both drivers were each a bit at fault, so couldn't really assign a penalty to one or the other.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 16, 2019, 07:35:55 AM
Could you just reiterate the bit you consider my Fault???        >:( >:( >:(
The only thing was that you had to brake almost as soon as you made the pass, which possibly caught Brad a little bit unawares, and shows that the pass was probably a fraction too late or close to the corner. The question I ask is "could Brad have avoided the contact?" and in this case I thought it was unlikely.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2019, 10:20:11 AM
Seanus, there's no need to be that upset; if you cut in front of someone and start braking right away, there is a good chance there'll be tears.
It's in your best interest to avoid that, don't you agree?  (as well in everyone's best interest)

That's why I always keep my line as much as I can after a late overtake, until we're past the apex and sorted the order out.  It helps heaps to avoid this, and is only a tiny drawback - if you're truly faster.   
Plus on the inside line you're likely to be able to take the correct, full-exit of the corner; so you'll be ahead with minimal loss on entry.

Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bacchulum on May 16, 2019, 10:57:21 AM
That's why I always keep my line as much as I can after a late overtake, until we're past the apex and sorted the order out.
That's what I do for the same reasons.
Maybe it should be a rule, as it happened to me as well, so that's twice in one evening. :-\
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 16, 2019, 12:15:45 PM
I think the thing to be taken into consideration here is that this all happened very quickly, and the question is still "could Brad have avoided the incident?". At the time, I thought not. But, like I've done before, I can put an overhead video up and we'll take a look at it.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on May 16, 2019, 12:37:39 PM
It might be good as a learning process for us all Wally, obviously not to target Seanus or Brad.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bacchulum on May 16, 2019, 12:53:45 PM
I think the thing to be taken into consideration here is that this all happened very quickly, and the question is still "could Brad have avoided the incident?". At the time, I thought not. But, like I've done before, I can put an overhead video up and we'll take a look at it.
If Seanus is correct (I haven't seen the replay) and Brad did pull back in behind him entering a braking zone, then yes, Brad could've avoided it by maintaining his line, as Bird and myself have suggested. ;)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Freezer on May 16, 2019, 01:07:35 PM
Does anyone have the replay!
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 16, 2019, 01:50:13 PM
...is that this all happened very quickly...

Are you/is Brad using VR?
No, I'm not.
 
It might be good as a learning process for us all Wally, obviously not to target Seanus or Brad.
Yeah, these are often interesting learning scenarios for everyone. Absolutely, it's never about the people, it's always about the situation, which we all can (and do) find ourselves in.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2019, 02:07:16 PM
.. if you cut in front of someone and start braking right away...

A few people with smelly fingers as you've all got the wrong end of the stick. I didn't cut in front of anyone. I was on the outside going in to the turn FFS. The other party chose to share that line despite the fact that braking was imminent.
Again on any other lap this falls under 'shit happens'. And the mistakes that caused the problem are promptly forgiven, but this was a first lap incident FFS. That's what I'm pissed about.

My bad, I did not get a clear description of the situation from above.  What I said sticks; it just does not apply to you here, instead applies to Brad. :)

I understand your frustration.

Edit: what lead me astray is the description:  "Tricky one: Seanus just passed Brad,... "
Starting out on that I've assumed you cut in front of him.   

I think, I'd like to see a replay, too, this is interesting.  (and I should have one for R1)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2019, 02:30:48 PM
I've checked it (I wish I could save the replay video, I've nfi how).

In my opinion this is not something GzeroD could have done better, bar completely pulling out before attempting the overtake.   He was on the absolute edge of the track, braking in a straight line, and he was ahead with near-no overlap; no mistake there.
Brad could have avoided it, had he taken a line that's nearer to the track's middle.  He was sticking to his line, not conceding (sideways) space even after being fully overtaken.

(The one contentious bit IMO is that small bump before the accident.   It looked like Brad wasn't aware that GzeroD was already there.  But it did not lead to any tears, thankfully.)

So all in all:  It was a racing incident, indeed; too close racing in these cars, but I'd say no fault of GzeroD in any way. 
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Joe on May 16, 2019, 04:12:18 PM
I think it's important to remember that at the of the day what we do is really just a game based around a common interest. For me it's something to enjoy in my downtime to relax a bit and take me away from busy real life shit. The level of aggression and attitudes on the forum and voice chat do sometimes really make it a much less enjoyable environment and experience. We're all human and make mistakes, we're doing the best we can, as is Wally who has to manage this large group of people. Sure I want to understand racing and race etiquette and become better at it, so discussion is always good, but let's just be nice about it  8)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Phil.8 on May 16, 2019, 04:34:18 PM
Seanus, there's no need to be that upset; if you cut in front of someone and start braking right away, there is a good chance there'll be tears.
It's in your best interest to avoid that, don't you agree?  (as well in everyone's best interest)

That's why I always keep my line as much as I can after a late overtake, until we're past the apex and sorted the order out.  It helps heaps to avoid this, and is only a tiny drawback - if you're truly faster.   
Plus on the inside line you're likely to be able to take the correct, full-exit of the corner; so you'll be ahead with minimal loss on entry.

Not saying this has happened here as I have not really read the full thread, but in reference to Birds comments above it reminded me of many moons ago when I did this to Bird in my first xgn race,  made the pass and instead of sticking to my line pulled over in front of him just before the braking point which caused him to not be able to see his braking point and smash,  he let me know of his displeasure at the time, and I got all angry and thought omg what have I done wrong,  but it was a valuable lesson in driver etiquette and he was right you just cant pull over back onto the racing line going into a corner as the driver following cant see anything, was actually the best lesson I ever learnt in Ac for clean racing, so thanks Bird  8) ;D
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Joe on May 16, 2019, 04:55:15 PM
Bahaha I did exactly the same thing to bird on my first ever xgn race
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Mael on May 16, 2019, 05:37:04 PM
Bahaha I did exactly the same thing to bird on my first ever xgn race

Well you would expect Bird just to fly over wouldn't you?   :P
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 16, 2019, 05:38:17 PM
There is always two sides to each situation and it seems most people are very reluctant to concede their position. It's only natural that when you make a pass fairly you will want to be back on the racing line as soon as possible, being passed fairly means to me that I now don't "own" that part of the track I need to be cautious and not punt the passer off (and receive penalties in real life) so I I'd back of a bit concede the position and wait for a fair opportunity, if I'm fast enough there might be one.
 Not saying what I did was right but making a rule or whatever to say don't go back on the racing line after passing is nonsensical at least in comparison to real world racing. Concede the position and wait for a suitable time to attack back, if there is one.
 I'm sorry I moved back to the racing line and braked a bit earlier but as with most incidents they're split second decisions made at 300km/h, not always the right ones. I had slip stream speed, the inside line and would have drifted myself off into the sand if I hadn't moved to racing line and slowed earlier (again too early maybe) my opponent should have had some idea of that, no offence bacchulum I've taken your critique on board.
 Also another issue I've seen is a clearly slower driver defending a position to wits end, if a faster car has made some ground behind you, make them work for a couple of turns but don't hold them up by defending every turn for a number of laps. (disclosure, not recently and rare)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2019, 05:42:32 PM
I think it's important to remember that at the of the day what we do is really just a game based around a common interest. For me it's something to enjoy in my downtime to relax a bit and take me away from busy real life shit. The level of aggression and attitudes on the forum and voice chat do sometimes really make it a much less enjoyable environment and experience. We're all human and make mistakes, we're doing the best we can, as is Wally who has to manage this large group of people. Sure I want to understand racing and race etiquette and become better at it, so discussion is always good, but let's just be nice about it  8)
Thanks for that; I agree, things can get a bit too heated here occasionally.


Edit:
Phil, Joe, I'm glad I could educationally rear-end each of you at some point :D
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Phil.8 on May 16, 2019, 05:47:57 PM
I think it's important to remember that at the of the day what we do is really just a game based around a common interest. For me it's something to enjoy in my downtime to relax a bit and take me away from busy real life shit. The level of aggression and attitudes on the forum and voice chat do sometimes really make it a much less enjoyable environment and experience. We're all human and make mistakes, we're doing the best we can, as is Wally who has to manage this large group of people. Sure I want to understand racing and race etiquette and become better at it, so discussion is always good, but let's just be nice about it  8)
Thanks for that; I agree, things can get a bit too heated here occasionally.


Edit:
Phil, Joe, I'm glad I could educationally rear-end each of you at some point :D

LOL :D
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: ab156 on May 16, 2019, 07:36:41 PM
Made it to T9, was well inside Joe leaving plenty of room, got ploughed into. 

I think I remember this but thought it was Seanus. The car got squirrelly on exit when I put the power down and lost some traction and it moved slightly over to the right. Sorry but had every intention of giving room and there wasn't much I could do; 'ploughed into' doesn't really describe what happened IMO.

Sorry - been away..  Every time I get hit I consider it being ploughed into  :D, you get no mercy!  Not a drama, just lap 1 fun.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bacchulum on May 16, 2019, 09:57:30 PM
but making a rule or whatever to say don't go back on the racing line after passing is nonsensical at least in comparison to real world racing.
Except the FIA have a rule of leaving a car width if you go back to the outside, and no changing lines in the braking zone, because even F1 drivers have issues with it. ;)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 16, 2019, 10:04:06 PM
This is Seanus passing Brad. You can see that Brad's car in front is consistently wandering left and right.
The question I ask before handing Brad a penalty is "Could Brad have avoided this?". Brad could have given more racing room as soon as he knew he was passed. Seanus could have not braked so soon after passing Brad. My call is no clear fault, so no penalty.
[youtube]J5JUHmCj60I[/youtube]
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 16, 2019, 10:07:53 PM
I think it's important to remember that at the of the day what we do is really just a game based around a common interest. For me it's something to enjoy in my downtime to relax a bit and take me away from busy real life shit. The level of aggression and attitudes on the forum and voice chat do sometimes really make it a much less enjoyable environment and experience. We're all human and make mistakes, we're doing the best we can, as is Wally who has to manage this large group of people. Sure I want to understand racing and race etiquette and become better at it, so discussion is always good, but let's just be nice about it  8)
This.

By all means, state your position forcefully, but keep the language clean and the tone respectful and constructive, for the benefit of everyone.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Freezer on May 16, 2019, 11:52:25 PM
Toys are officially out of the pram . . . 9/10 drivers would agree with that!
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on May 17, 2019, 06:23:14 AM
Let's concentrate on the foul language instead of real issue as lord knows we shouldn't want some 5 year old to stumble across the word and have his whole life ruined.

FFS. Now I've seen the footage, my replay got overwritten, it's a lay down misere, bradc receives a penalty for that or my name isn't.

9/10 drivers agree bradc should cop first lap penalty for that. Tell me I'm not wrong

Dude, you disagree with how it was judged.  That's going to happen in life. Accept and move on. It happens to everyone at some point.  No need to bring yourself down with that sort of rubbish.  I'm sure you're a decent bloke, so get it together and put one incident, from one race in a game that has no real bearing on life behind you.  It's not worth the agro mate.

I happen to think, based on the video, that Brad should have pulled over to the left more once he had fallen behind you to allow some room, but I get what Wally is saying and you have to respect that Wally is running the league and making the best judgement call he can.  No need to make an already difficult job more difficult for him.

Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: killagorilla on May 17, 2019, 06:58:18 AM
This is Seanus passing Brad. You can see that Brad's car in front is consistently wandering left and right.
The question I ask before handing Brad a penalty is "Could Brad have avoided this?". Brad could have given more racing room as soon as he knew he was passed. Seanus could have not braked so soon after passing Brad. My call is no clear fault, so no penalty.
[youtube]J5JUHmCj60I[/youtube]

Very unlucky for Seanus...poor c...err...fella ;-)...like me...I was run into in r1 and r2 as well (and lost many positions, especially the second one where I was at the edge of the track letting pretty much everyone pass before I was able to re-enter the track savely...that was painful)...I know Freezer suffered from a guy having little control over his car as well ;-)
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: buellersdayoff on May 17, 2019, 08:08:48 AM
but making a rule or whatever to say don't go back on the racing line after passing is nonsensical at least in comparison to real world racing.
Except the FIA have a rule of leaving a car width if you go back to the outside, and no changing lines in the braking zone, because even F1 drivers have issues with it. ;)
Oh I didn't know that, fair enough
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 17, 2019, 08:28:51 AM
Slept on it.
Not angry anymore as that last post reached escape velocity.
I'll apologise now, lest I've set a crash course for the Sun.
You might like to reflect on the fact that I have been running this community for years, for free (in fact, at my expense), in my own time and we all here for fun.


The moderation is not about 5 year olds stumbling across the forum. There are other people here in THIS community who don't appreciate the language or tone.


I never said I wasn't going to change my judgement. I put the video up to gauge community thoughts about it, and then I'll see if I was wrong or right about my decision. Later...
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 17, 2019, 08:39:23 AM
Wally, how do you get  into the top-down view?  I didn't seem to have that camera angle.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Freezer on May 17, 2019, 09:45:30 AM
Wally, how do you get  into the top-down view?  I didn't seem to have that camera angle.
F5, then use your mouse to swing the camera around.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 17, 2019, 09:59:50 AM
Wally, how do you get  into the top-down view?  I didn't seem to have that camera angle.
F5, then use your mouse to swing the camera around.
Awesome, thanks!
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on May 17, 2019, 10:04:28 AM
You have to enable free camera in one of the settings ini's in the AC folder I believe.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: doobs on May 17, 2019, 12:35:19 PM
I was following that one in the race I think.
From my car when it happened and from the replay, my thought was, and is that the car on the inside screwed up.

But

I'm not Wally, and it's his call.  He makes 'em and I respect them even if I think he's not quite right :) (It is very rare that I think he's not quite right)
It could be worse and we could be subject to iRacing justice. Now that would really suck.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 17, 2019, 03:38:47 PM
You have to enable free camera in one of the settings ini's in the AC folder I believe.
Yeah, it's a bit obscure. Some spherical coords setting has to be 0 in a system camera cfg file (I can't remember the exact details now, but I'm sure you can find it).
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 17, 2019, 03:42:32 PM
Well, the consensus seems to be that Brad was in the wrong here, so I will issue Brad a penalty for next round. Because he already had a penalty, he'll have penalty ballast in both race 1 and 2.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 17, 2019, 03:53:15 PM
You have to enable free camera in one of the settings ini's in the AC folder I believe.
Yeah, it's a bit obscure. Some spherical coords setting has to be 0 in a system camera cfg file (I can't remember the exact details now, but I'm sure you can find it).


I've found the free cam setting easily enough in the assetto_corsa.ini.  This allows the F5 cam.   Maybe you can extend its range by some other obscure config?

Btw I've found another handy thing:  a quick-change to any car (python app)!
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/carsel.9725/
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: bradc on May 17, 2019, 05:49:55 PM
Well, the consensus seems to be that Brad was in the wrong here, so I will issue Brad a penalty for next round. Because he already had a penalty, he'll have penalty ballast in both race 1 and 2.

Having read the abuse in this thread over the past 48 hours it seems that if you don't agree with Wally you just abuse the forum until you get your own way, which is simply appalling!

We've been all been on the wrong end of something and I don't think anyone I've raced here does this things deliberately, heck I know I certainly don't. At the time of the said incident I thought it was 50/50 as I thought it was a silly place for a passing car to put themselves knowing the speed being traveled with an extremely short time to react before the corner, plus these cars are hard enough to keep control of as it is. 

From some of posts here it seems people think this was a cold, calculated act, performed deliberately to ruins Seanus' day and that he's been hard done by. It most certainly was not. We all make mistakes but it's how we conduct ourselves which makes the difference. Seeing the kangaroo court has spoken, I'll just park it for next week's racing because if this is how people want to conduct themselves then, quite frankly, I have better things I can do with my spare time.....
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bird on May 17, 2019, 06:05:43 PM
Brad, it may have been a hairy pass (I don't think it was, but let's say) - but after the pass you've been on the inside.  Then you made a mistake.  Nobody said you deliberately knocked the other car off track.
But the car in front did nothing wrong, went straight towards the corner & started braking.  That could not be accounted as a fault in any way or form IMO.  But happy to hear your argument; how is this a racing mistake at all?
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 17, 2019, 06:12:13 PM
Well, the consensus seems to be that Brad was in the wrong here, so I will issue Brad a penalty for next round. Because he already had a penalty, he'll have penalty ballast in both race 1 and 2.

Having read the abuse in this thread over the past 48 hours it seems that if you don't agree with Wally you just abuse the forum until you get your own way, which is simply appalling!

We've been all been on the wrong end of something and I don't think anyone I've raced here does this things deliberately, heck I know I certainly don't. At the time of the said incident I thought it was 50/50 as I thought it was a silly place for a passing car to put themselves knowing the speed being traveled with an extremely short time to react before the corner, plus these cars are hard enough to keep control of as it is. 

From some of posts here it seems people think this was a cold, calculated act, performed deliberately to ruins Seanus' day and that he's been hard done by. It most certainly was not. We all make mistakes but it's how we conduct ourselves which makes the difference. Seeing the kangaroo court has spoken, I'll just park it for next week's racing because if this is how people want to conduct themselves then, quite frankly, I have better things I can do with my spare time.....
Brad, no one ever accused you of anything deliberately malicious. It's clearly just an honest racing incident. I have made an effort to stop the abuse, which was certainly directed at me alone, the way I see it. As I've done before, if I make a judgement that people think is questionable, I open it up for discussion with a video, and if enough people disagree with my call, I change it. This is not the first time we've done this.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: bradc on May 20, 2019, 04:47:29 PM
Brad, it may have been a hairy pass (I don't think it was, but let's say) - but after the pass you've been on the inside.  Then you made a mistake.  Nobody said you deliberately knocked the other car off track.
But the car in front did nothing wrong, went straight towards the corner & started braking.  That could not be accounted as a fault in any way or form IMO.  But happy to hear your argument; how is this a racing mistake at all?

I know it's a waste of my breath, but I'll type it anyway.....

In my opinion I felt it was reckless move by Seanus. At the time,  it felt like there was side to side contact during the pass and from my mirrors it looked like he was passing on the grass. The next I know he's braking in front of me and I honestly thought he was brake testing me! I felt like I had not time to avoid the contact because Seanus was braking a lot earlier than expected.

As these are split second decisions, it is why I had believed that Wally was right in calling it a racing incident as we both contributed to the accident. I never portrayed myself as totally innocent, but I certainly find it hard to accept I was totally responsible for this either, as is now the case after being issued a penalty. For me, it doesn't matter I'll still drive the same way be it lap 1, lap 9 or lap 100.

Regardless, I now know if I get bumped off the track on lap one and a penalty isn't applied that I need to follow Seanus lead and just write abusive posts until the decision is reversed....lesson learned.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Bacchulum on May 20, 2019, 05:18:49 PM
Regardless, I now know if I get bumped off the track on lap one and a penalty isn't applied that I need to follow Seanus lead and just write abusive posts until the decision is reversed....lesson learned.
I believe that is incorrect (I think Seanus' posts hardened Wally to stand his ground).
It was the views of the other members that weren't involved that swayed his mind.
Quote
I never said I wasn't going to change my judgement. I put the video up to gauge community thoughts about it, and then I'll see if I was wrong or right about my decision. Later...
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: doobs on May 20, 2019, 07:04:10 PM
Regardless, I now know if I get bumped off the track on lap one and a penalty isn't applied that I need to follow Seanus lead and just write abusive posts until the decision is reversed....lesson learned.

I can pretty much guarantee if you do that you'll find the same level of assessment made and may end up with a penalty anyway if it goes to community court. I do not like abuse on the forums, particularly towards Wally, or anyone giving their time and efforts to allow us to race, and it did not please me to see it.  Seanus's reaction on the forum pissed me off to be honest and if I was a dick I would have apportioned blame to him just for being abusive.

However,
I saw the incident in-car as it happened, and thought the inside car made a mistake because it drifted over, made contact and knocked the outside car (which was holding a straight line) off the circuit. I didn't bother to find out who was inside or outside, and couldn't remember who was in the inside car, which is why I said the inside car screwed up rather than apportion blame to a driver.
Upon watching the replay provided by Wally it seemed the same, and as far as braking is concerned, my brake marker was exactly where the outside cars was, just before the tower on the right.
Far from being a Kangaroo court I think you'll find everyone objectively looked at it and made pretty much the same assessment.
Things can look different from inside your cockpit, and in mirrors but the way I saw it was, as described.
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 20, 2019, 08:53:17 PM
Regardless, I now know if I get bumped off the track on lap one and a penalty isn't applied that I need to follow Seanus lead and just write abusive posts until the decision is reversed....lesson learned.
No, what you do is disagree with my decision, and if I still don't think it's clear one way or the other, I'll see what everyone else thinks. That's what we've done before, on several occasions. Don't get blinded by Seanus' language... the process was the same. Abuse is not required to get a decision re-considered!
Title: Re: S28R2: Suzuka 1988
Post by: Wally on May 21, 2019, 07:24:06 AM
All good Seanus. Thanks for the apology. I've got a thick skin and filter emotion out of most things. I am a computer programmer after all ;)
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