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Overtaking rules

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Offline Gratulin

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Overtaking rules
« on: January 03, 2016, 09:05:03 AM »
I came across this write up for overtaking rules on another forum (OutlawsRacing) and, at least for me, it is the clearest explanation of overtaking that I have read. Probably everyone here has seen this wording before? Is it from V8Supercars?

From my perspective we don't have a problem with overtaking here at XGN but I thought it was a good write up worth reading.

I have not really understood the difference between a "dive bomb on the inside" overtaking manoeuvre and a legitimate inside pass before. This seems to clarify the difference.

PS Wally will probably now point me to the exact same wording in his league rules :D

Quote
2. Pass with care. If you aren't sure you can pull off a move to pass an opponent, then don't do it. Take your time to work out where to make the move. If you are passing someone on the inside of a corner you must have your car at least 1/2 way along side the other car (B pillar) before the car you are passing starts to turn in, to have the right to half the road in the corner, you must hold that inside line on the exit, you can not run the car to the outside of the track.
If you are passing someone on the outside of a corner you must have your car at least 2/3 along side the other car (A pillar) before the car you are passing starts to turn in, to have the right to half the road in the corner, you must hold that outside line on the exit, you can not turn in on the inside car on the exit. If you do not get this done you must pull back behind the lead car. The car being passed has to give racing room. If you see an opening in the corner, you can then make a pass. But if you make contact you will have to pull back behind the car for you did not get your car up to the (B pillar) before the corner.

3. If you attempt to pass another driver and tag them during your pass, gaining an advantage, allow them to regain the position, even if it means you lose positions to drivers not involved in the incident. Basically, if you botch up a pass, you may pay a bigger penalty.

4. Defensive driving. Swerving on straights to stop or to brake the slipstream is allowed, but swerving on straights to stop or block another driver from passing is not allowed, a position change to ensure and protect your line for the corner is fine. You may move once to defend your position. EG - on a straight approaching a right hand corner, you are allowed to move to the right hand side of the track to defend the inside line for the upcoming corner, you are now committed to that line into the corner, you are not permitted to move back onto the racing line
« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 09:12:09 AM by Gratulin »

Offline Wally

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Re: Overtaking rules
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 10:04:52 AM »
It all sounds sensible to me! It's much like the V8 Supercars rules, and probably most real life racing series.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: Overtaking rules
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2016, 02:01:50 PM »
Yep, spot on I reckon.  The only thing I don't agree with is being certain of pulling off a pass.  I think you should be certain enough to be confident of pulling it off, but there is always some uncertainty.  As long as it's likely then I think it's fine.

I posted this in another thread a little while ago, but as far as I'm concerned it's the bible (an easy to read and understand one though):

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

To me, the biggest issue is changing your line, braking, etc. to be able to make the corner and also pass without touching.  I think this only gets better with experience.  Also for the person being passed to recognise this and provide some room instead of just ploughing through someone because they are on "their line".

Offline marty

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Re: Overtaking rules
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 03:10:22 PM »
I think passing rules should be even more simplified, 1/2 inside 2/3 outside seems pretty odd and consfusing to me. Does that mean if someone is 1/2 outside can the inside guy drive him off the road at the entry or also drive them off the road on the exit? A literal interpretation of that rule would say so and I dont think you should at any point ever drive anyone off the road.

Pretty much a reasonable overlap or almost any I will leave racing room to a car on either side at any point of the track straight or corner makes no difference.

The key to passing on the inside is to understand you need to slow more as you wont have the full road on exit, this is because if you haven't cleared the outside guy you still need to leave them at least 1 car width inside the track boundary. So even if someone gets inside me on the entry I am not going to give up the corner and make them work for the pass, those rules almost make racing seem as if once you get to position A vs B you must concede and not attempt to hold that position fairly.

A dive bomb is basically someone coming in on the inside and then unable to make the apex, they will come in way too hot and then run wide on the exit so the outside car if they turn in even leaving a car space on apex will have a collision. I see this quite a bit and mostly I will just let the person take the apex slow more and then take the spot back as they run wide. If you try to take the turn normally you will be bound to have a collision but thats assuming the guy did it by mistake which is more common. A dive bomber does this move at every chance with no care if they leave racing room for the outside car or even if they can stay on the track mid corner let alone hit the apex.

Amongst better drivers I am more familiar with I will leave less room then against those with less control or that I dont know. I also will never try to be too tricky against people not as aware of others making sure they can see my move in a fairly obvious way. Against the better guys upfront you do need to try and out smart them and the best racing is when you battle away but both give enough racing room. Your only conceding them that racing room not the position so you need to make them work for it, in many cases if you can hang on side by side eventually you will get to a corner where you are in a position to easily gain the place or must concede as there is no defence option.

When it comes to defending when ahead you need to pick a side inside or out and do it early enough to show the other guy your intention, if you chose the inside you then must leave them racing room outside on the entry and all the way through the turn. The most common mistake I see people do is they go inside early then you take the outside and they drive you straight off the road. Here is where I dont think you need 2/3 overlap outside as the inside guy chose that side. If the other car gets any overlap he must leave him that room, this means you have compromised your entry and exit speeds by being in too tight but that was your choice when you took the inside defensive line. :)

The V8 rule to me seems best and most simple, leave 1 car width of valid track to any car with any overlap at all times.

Offline Wally

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Re: Overtaking rules
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2016, 03:45:00 PM »
Also for the person being passed to recognise this and provide some room instead of just ploughing through someone because they are on "their line".
Agree. Often in the V8s, you see a pass and think ”Gee, that looked easy”, but that's because I'm sure the guy being passed knows the other guy has the pace and concedes the corner safely.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

 

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