[Wally]

[youtube]IiAuYqlYrSs[/youtube]

How wild is this for an AC based simulator?

[rob]

Wally, sure looks and SOUNDS the business. But I was a bit surprised that its was not a full motion rig. But I would swap my one 23" monitor for his 3 projectors in a heart beat. lol.

rob

[Wally]

Yeah, imagine that in full motion. Just having all the windows filled with the screen would be amazing.

[Gratulin]

Interesting how close the steering wheel is to the driver.

Also comments on how to "self improve" are spot on - I've only just started to understand how to do that ie understand a mistake on a corner and then improve how you take that corner on the next lap. Sounds simple but needs you to have a complete picture of "a lap" to be able to understand how each lap is constructed.

[marty]

Interesting how close the steering wheel is to the driver.

Also comments on how to "self improve" are spot on - I've only just started to understand how to do that ie understand a mistake on a corner and then improve how you take that corner on the next lap. Sounds simple but needs you to have a complete picture of "a lap" to be able to understand how each lap is constructed.

Self improving in most cars you can feel it but having the live delta up is a big help, this way you can instantly see if your gaining or losing time. Most time is gained on corner exits and most is lost under braking, you can only gain maybe the last .3 or .4 on absolute on the limit braking but muck one of those up and you can lose 1 second by the next corner.

I do like the screen on this setup the car is more gimmick then anything else as you really dont need that in a sim. Get the proper driver position, very good wheel pedals and a good dash would be much the same thing. Then add a proper motion sim like this one I tried a while back and its another dimension.

[youtube]HJoi-1g0IzI[/youtube]

Sure you can deal without the motion and people used to it will also improve their real world driving but a proper motion platform makes it so much easier to feel what the car is doing. I only tried this motion sim on LFS, RF1 and RBR and the screen at that time on their prototype was a pretty low res single projector at maybe 50 inch screen size. Pixels the size of my nose and that was the biggest negative of the setup I used, the forces were fricken amazing but at that time it was going to cost about $80k plus id need to raise the roof or build a special room which wasnt ever going to happen. 

Still if I had the decommissioned car id drive it on a real track, if I wanted a proper sim setup id get the Force Dynamics one.

[Wally]

You've tried one? Great. I would love to try something like that.

I agree, the instant delta is the greatest way to see where you're gaining or losing time. 

[Bacchulum]

I just finished reading an article about professional simulators.
Word has it that static is better than motion.
If the motion cues aren't exactly right, it's worse than having no motion at all.

The F1 simulators are given as an example.
They've been developed at a cost of millions for 1 car and 1 tyre construction.
And some teams still aren't up to scratch.

[marty]

Im pretty sure a bad motion platform is not going to help you at all but the much higher end simulators are a different thing to some basic cheap setup that has large delays and lag. The one I tried is selling for $80k+ depending on extras you want and it felt very natural to me actually straight out I was quite a bit quicker then in my home setup in all the sims I tried. LFS especially I barely drove at home and in the sim it felt very natural handling wise and RBR especially made getting the car sliding so much easier to control. The setup is very fast with low lag and definitely not any I could notice or was hurting me.

I can feel input lag on wheels very easily and the main thing I do on my home setup is ensure there is minimal render lag which greatly aids in control on the limit. This is exactly the same with a motion platform if its not fast enough its going to hurt way more then it helps but trust me when the force dynamics is at full speed its a pretty brutal experience giving you a beating similar to driving a kart. Control on the limit was much better then on any static sim setup I have ever used and Id love to have another go in it again with AC this time. I have heard there are some issues with motion sims and AC atm so probably its not currently the best experience.

Still in terms of learning a car setup and track in a good static sim a good driver can adapt to the no motion quite quickly if they are fairly used to sims. Guys that rarely drive sims and only do real world racing have had more issues in my static home setup in the past but these guys in AC pick it up much quicker as it feels quite natural even minus any motion feedback.

F1 teams dont build simulators for show and fun, they do it as its the only way to really give drivers any proper track time due to very limited miles per season. They all have motion rigs because its better then static and if it wasn't the case then they would simply do whatever gives them the biggest advantage for setting up cars and giving drivers track time before the race weekend.

I tried one fairly cheap and basic seat based motion platform once and I wouldn't have taken it if it was free as it had noticeable lag and really didnt give me much natural feel. Cant remember the brand but compared to the force dynamics setup it was no comparison and I preferred my static home setup over it. I have seen quite a few similar type designs online but id avoid any of those without getting a proper trial with one after my experience in that type of setup.

[Bacchulum]

The article was about professional sims for hire, not sale, so I don't know their cost.
At a guess $80k would be the starting point.
50ms latency was quoted as unacceptable, what was the latency on the one you tried Marty?

The motion in an F1 sim is not for driver training either.
Those sims are 'hardware in the loop' for vehicle development where, apparently, motion is a must.

[marty]

I cant find any figures for latency, there was an article somewhere claiming 60ms but thats not an official spec. I didnt notice any delay when using it so it would be that figure or lower I assume. I probably did about 4 hrs in it and had no issues with motion sickness etc and first laps out had no weirdness feeling and felt better connected to the cars then on any other setup I have tried.

Im sure the F1 sims are at another level as these guys are as you say the starting point for higher end sims, the f1 teams do spend so much actually more then they have most of the time. Thats why caterham is trying to crowd fund a start in the last round  they are normally going to pay whatever it costs and so people making sims or components for them know this. As long as they make the best available price really isnt an issue especially with the top teams.

Still 80k is way too much for most home users and even smaller race teams who end up renting sim time if they need it.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

I tried a motion rig in the Philippines.  It was a piece of crap.  But I highly doubt it cost $80k.

[marty]

I tried a motion rig in the Philippines.  It was a piece of crap.  But I highly doubt it cost $80k.

I imagine a Phillipine's simulator including you wearing a rift or basic blindfold on a platform and 10 people pushing it around a little, not lots of hi tech stuff when I was there.

[rooshooter]

  I did some laps in the cheaper of the the two simulators( $140K aus) in august this year they
 had most stuff turned down( sound, motion and FF) but it was still impressive, if I had the money I
would buy it. The more expensive rig was close to $220K aus. 

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[rooshooter]

second photo

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[rooshooter]

try again

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