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Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Topic started by: killagorilla on February 11, 2018, 07:33:48 PM

Title: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: killagorilla on February 11, 2018, 07:33:48 PM
Something like that would probably get me into VR - talking about the PIMAX 5k/8k:
https://www.vrandfun.com/meet-second-generation-vr-ar-headsets-release-2018/
Just need a matching graphics card...should reduce the number of collisions as well.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bacchulum on February 11, 2018, 07:48:47 PM
Still not convinced.
Is the 8k the resolution or the price? :-X
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: killagorilla on February 11, 2018, 08:06:35 PM
I'd think even 5k's would be pretty good, but the thing I like the most is the FOV...200° is pretty much real life experience, isn't it?
However, I doubt current graphics cards could handle this thing.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Seanus on February 11, 2018, 08:45:59 PM
200° is a bona fide scam. The lenses would need to wrap that much around your eyeball.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on February 13, 2018, 06:38:10 PM
I'm definitely on the Pimax 8K bandwagon.

It actually renders at 1440p per eye and then upscales to 4K.  So the horsepower isn't as much as it sounds - made even more confusing by basically lying about the resolution in it's name.

But, from the hands on I've read and watched it sounds like screen door effect is all but gone and the 200 degree FOV is real and amazing.  Obviously there is a lot more detail in everything as well.

The issues at the moment sound like it's more to do with head tracking (done using Vive's) and comfort.  Also some screen blur which is far more of a concern to me as it uses LCD, not OLED, and I believe blurring is inherent in LCD which makes me think that is one issue which might be harder to fix.

Either way, 4K VR is what I'm waiting for.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Joe on February 14, 2018, 11:30:51 AM
I'm definitely on the Pimax 8K bandwagon.

It actually renders at 1440p per eye and then upscales to 4K.  So the horsepower isn't as much as it sounds - made even more confusing by basically lying about the resolution in it's name.

But, from the hands on I've read and watched it sounds like screen door effect is all but gone and the 200 degree FOV is real and amazing.  Obviously there is a lot more detail in everything as well.

The issues at the moment sound like it's more to do with head tracking (done using Vive's) and comfort.  Also some screen blur which is far more of a concern to me as it uses LCD, not OLED, and I believe blurring is inherent in LCD which makes me think that is one issue which might be harder to fix.

Either way, 4K VR is what I'm waiting for.

You were far too fast just with a single monitor. Giving you VR seems like the rest of us won't have a chance. (not that we did before anyway)
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Phil on March 01, 2018, 07:41:21 AM
200° is a bona fide scam. The lenses would need to wrap that much around your eyeball.

Fun fact about the human eye:

For both eyes combined visual field is 135° vertical and 200° horizontal.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Gratulin on March 01, 2018, 11:52:23 AM
200° is a bona fide scam. The lenses would need to wrap that much around your eyeball.

Fun fact about the human eye:

For both eyes combined visual field is 135° vertical and 200° horizontal.
so I do have eyes in the back of my head after all!
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: buellersdayoff on March 01, 2018, 01:22:14 PM
200° is a bona fide scam. The lenses would need to wrap that much around your eyeball.

Fun fact about the human eye:

For both eyes combined visual field is 135° vertical and 200° horizontal.
so I do have eyes in the back of my head after all!
Didn't see me coming...twice lol joking...joking
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Phil on March 14, 2018, 10:15:44 AM
I gotta say this is the best company in the world. Who else gives you $15 bucks because they stuffed up patching something... 
This is what I got in my email today.


Hi Rudski,

As one of our Rift users affected by the recent Oculus software downtime, we're reaching out today with details on the Oculus Store credit mentioned in follow-up last week.

We sincerely apologize for the service disruption, and have added $15 USD store credits (or local currency equivalent) to your Oculus Account in appreciation of your understanding. Please review this page for more info about using Oculus Store credits.

If the credit provided is a different currency than what you see in the Oculus Store, please contact Oculus Support for further assistance.

If you're still experiencing issues connecting to the Oculus software, please click here to review our support article.

Thanks again for being a part of the Oculus community — we look forward to seeing you back in VR soon.

- The Oculus Team
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on September 18, 2018, 07:52:44 AM
Pimax review :

https://youtu.be/t8iFOhC2j6I

Sounds OK. Question is which is best for sim racing.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Phil.8 on September 18, 2018, 10:44:14 AM
They look like a decent upgrade over current ones for sure, but for me until its like wearing a pair of sunglasses I am not going to wear something that big on my head for hours on end.  I tried the rift in a shop in town and found triple monitors was more normal to a real life view of looking out a car window
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bird on September 18, 2018, 11:10:07 AM
They look like a decent upgrade over current ones for sure, but for me until its like wearing a pair of sunglasses I am not going to wear something that big on my head for hours on end.  I tried the rift in a shop in town and found triple monitors was more normal to a real life view of looking out a car window

You'll be waiting for a while, I reckon.  :)  It'll probably never be like sunglasses, too many bits & pieces need to go into it (lenses & screens to start with) and it needs to block the outside out pretty well, too.

IMO 3 monitors will be better for a long while, yet.  (or one huge curved one for that matter)
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bacchulum on September 18, 2018, 12:01:14 PM
VR only has to get a bit better (and cheaper) to outperform my triples.
Reason: a cockpit, lounge suite, bookshelves, TV and entire kitchen squeezed into a 4m x 6m space is quite difficult.
VR would save a shit load of space. :-X
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bird on September 18, 2018, 12:11:48 PM
VR only has to get a bit better (and cheaper) to outperform my triples.
Reason: a cockpit, lounge suite, bookshelves, TV and entire kitchen squeezed into a 4m x 6m space is quite difficult.
VR would save a shit load of space. :-X

yeah, there's that.

If it'd give me a virtual workspace as big as a wall, maybe I'd go for it, too.
I was thinking of a projector, but there's too much light in here among other things (and my office is about 3x3m).  But I can still accommodate a 50" monitor here when they come out :D
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Gratulin on September 18, 2018, 02:40:14 PM
200° is a bona fide scam. The lenses would need to wrap that much around your eyeball.
all you would see is the back of your brain...
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Joe on September 18, 2018, 03:25:40 PM
Reason: a cockpit, lounge suite, bookshelves, TV and entire kitchen squeezed into a 4m x 6m space is quite difficult.

Get rid of the kitchen get triple 32s? Who needs a kitchen anyway, as long as there is a beer fridge?
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Phil.8 on September 18, 2018, 03:33:23 PM
been thinking of getting one curved monitor to replace my triples but not sure if it will give the same effect or if you can even get them big enough to be comparable , or maybe 3 curved like this https://www.pccasegear.com/products/43413/aoc-c24g1-23-6in-curved-full-hd-144hz-freesync-va-gaming-monitor
 anyone have any opinion on this ?
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bacchulum on September 18, 2018, 05:08:45 PM
Reason: a cockpit, lounge suite, bookshelves, TV and entire kitchen squeezed into a 4m x 6m space is quite difficult.

Get rid of the kitchen get triple 32s? Who needs a kitchen anyway, as long as there is a beer fridge?
I've been making that argument for a while.
But the kitchen is built into the building, so that comes under body corporate, and they won't budge. :'(
And don't mention the beer fridge, it's anorexic at the moment. :'(
 :P 8)
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 18, 2018, 05:30:22 PM
been thinking of getting one curved monitor to replace my triples but not sure if it will give the same effect or if you can even get them big enough to be comparable , or maybe 3 curved like this https://www.pccasegear.com/products/43413/aoc-c24g1-23-6in-curved-full-hd-144hz-freesync-va-gaming-monitor
 anyone have any opinion on this ?
Closest thing to triples in one monitor is https://www.pccasegear.com/products/42826/samsung-c49j890d-ultra-widescreen-144hz-49in-qled-gaming-monitor but it is only as wide two monitors and does not wrap around as much as larger triples would. Personally I'd go up to 27inch instead of the 23inch for triples https://www.pccasegear.com/products/43412/aoc-c27g1-27in-curved-full-hd-144hz-freesync-va-gaming-monitor to have more real estate and wrap around further. It's just my opinion and depends on how much room you have, I'd rather have one large curve or three big screens.
Edit, having said all that, the high refresh curved 23's would be nice
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Phil.8 on September 18, 2018, 07:26:09 PM
That is a not bad price either,  never really seen a curved one up close and wonder how 3 would be together

Edit

looked up some pic and looks awesome
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on September 18, 2018, 09:28:31 PM
I think it's only 1080p
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: rooshooter on September 19, 2018, 09:05:21 AM
That is a not bad price either,  never really seen a curved one up close and wonder how 3 would be together

Edit

looked up some pic and looks awesome
Review of Triple 35inch curved monitors.
https://www.isrtv.com/reviews/benq-xr3501-curved-ultra-wide-triple-gaming-monitor-review/
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bird on September 19, 2018, 10:08:48 AM
That is a not bad price either,  never really seen a curved one up close and wonder how 3 would be together

Edit

looked up some pic and looks awesome
Review of Triple 35inch curved monitors.
https://www.isrtv.com/reviews/benq-xr3501-curved-ultra-wide-triple-gaming-monitor-review/

From the pictures in the article it looks like they've got serious distortion issues on that triple setup.   Can that be dialled out I wonder...? 
That bad perspectivic distortion was always one of my main gripes with this setup, btw.   The other is the bezels.  :)
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Joe on September 19, 2018, 10:34:21 AM
From the pictures in the article it looks like they've got serious distortion issues on that triple setup.   Can that be dialled out I wonder...? 

Any time I take pictures like that of my setup it looks like things don't line up or are distorted. It's because all the settings pumped into the AC triples app is based on my seating position so when I'm sat in my rig it looks perfect  8)
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Phil.8 on September 19, 2018, 12:13:14 PM
I think it's only 1080p

I am happy with 1080 with higher refresh rate
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bird on September 19, 2018, 12:22:39 PM
From the pictures in the article it looks like they've got serious distortion issues on that triple setup.   Can that be dialled out I wonder...? 

Any time I take pictures like that of my setup it looks like things don't line up or are distorted. It's because all the settings pumped into the AC triples app is based on my seating position so when I'm sat in my rig it looks perfect  8)

Ah ok.  In the past when I used triples, it was a real problem for me.  I haven't ever managed to get it right.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: buellersdayoff on September 21, 2018, 08:28:31 PM
In depth review...almost 3 hours https://youtu.be/bcZ0CXP0qgU
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on September 21, 2018, 09:42:59 PM
In depth review...almost 3 hours

Where's the extended version?
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: killagorilla on March 25, 2019, 12:31:29 PM
The Pimax is out and being used now. I went through forums to get an idea about it. Plenty of diy mods to make it more comfortable...there are even guys wanting to sell and going back to the rift. Guess it needs more time. I had StarVR on my radar as well, but the Starbreeze side of it is sorting out financial issues at the moment...well, see how they go with it and what ACER is doing. Guess this one needs times as well.
So I just ordered 3 curved 27" screens to replace my 24" ones.
A major concern in regard to these VR goggles is the climate up here in Brissie...so it looks like I'll stick with monitors for some more time.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: buellersdayoff on March 25, 2019, 04:40:38 PM
It's great fun and very immersive, but for me the issues of image quality and the "sweet spot" especially the cheap lenovo without eye adjustment, is a thing. I don't use mine much and only with project cars 2 on my old pc, for me it's the only game that just works. Acc still doesn't work for me, when the game loads it's like everything is too low (in space) ac needs a second "profile" set up for apps and everything. It's mostly a pita, when I get chance to race I don't want to spend an hour fiddling with shit. Not to put a damper on things, it might be better for you. If I had room for triples it's what I would do...ultra wide will suffice.
https://youtu.be/__rxNJYJqMA
Edit, I meant to post in Jamie's vr thread
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Phil.8 on March 25, 2019, 05:16:37 PM
I have only I have only tried VR a few times, but find it annoying having to wear them, They need to become as light as a pair of sunglasses before I would consider them as a serious alternative to triples, the picture quality is not much. To me triples seem to represent a car windscreen better than VR, as they are about the same distance from my eyes as a real windscreen if all setup correctly,   its not like you wrap your car around your head,  But in saying all that they are a bit of a fun novelty.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: killagorilla on March 25, 2019, 07:51:41 PM
I watched quite a few reviews on the Pimax and can't really remember that wear comfort was criticised. The trouble users now have seem to be pretty serious though.
The StarVR would be expensive anyway and on top of that you'd need the best graphics card available which means more $$ to be spent.
It seems triples are still a good investment...and monitors are getting cheaper and cheaper anyway.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: rooshooter on March 27, 2019, 10:49:33 AM
Lenovo Explorer with controllers $99  :o :o :o :o :o :o

Check with your local JBHIFI store should be instock.
hifi.com.au/unavailable/?q=lenovo explorer&404;http://www.jbhifi.com.au/lenovo/lenovo=
hifi.com.au/unavailable/?q=lenovo explorer&404;http://www.jbhifi.com.au/lenovo/lenovo=

Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Joe on March 27, 2019, 04:30:43 PM
Damn that's cheap.  I paid 99usd without controllers.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: rooshooter on March 27, 2019, 07:38:14 PM
Damn that's cheap.  I paid 99usd without controllers.
I bought another one just for the controllers ;D. I still think this headset properly setup is VERY good.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on April 08, 2019, 11:01:12 PM
So what's the consensus: virtual reality vs triples?
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Joe on April 09, 2019, 08:02:30 AM
So what's the consensus: virtual reality vs triples?

For me VR is fun for playing around with. I have one of the Lenovo mixed reality headsets which is actually very good; good tracking and higher res than a rift/vive. The immersion is awesome and it's fun, but the lack of clarity for me means league racing still happens on my triples.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: rooshooter on April 09, 2019, 09:05:20 AM
So what's the consensus: virtual reality vs triples?
I also have the Lenovo, but I still prefer my 4K  55inch 200hz curved single  TV/monitor. I believe we are many years away from having powerful enough GPUs to run a VR setup with high enough res to compete with monitors. My 1080ti struggles with 3840x2160 on my singlescreen :'(, but as Joe says VR is something else. The 2080ti is not much of an improvement over the 1080ti, Morre's Law is well and truly dead :'(.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bird on April 09, 2019, 09:37:37 AM
...My 1080ti struggles with 3840x2160 on my singlescreen ...

That's weird, my 1080 Ti (zotac, slightly oc'd) does not seem to struggle with my 4k screen at all.  Could it be some other factor?  Or maybe your definition of struggle is different? :)
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: rooshooter on April 09, 2019, 10:13:45 AM
...My 1080ti struggles with 3840x2160 on my singlescreen ...

That's weird, my 1080 Ti (zotac, slightly oc'd) does not seem to struggle with my 4k screen at all.  Could it be some other factor?  Or maybe your definition of struggle is different? :)
I prefer a FPS of 80plus , I find sometimes on Thursdays I get down to 60FPS, I am running an 1st. gen i7, i7 860 oc'd to 3.9gig and I don't think my system is CPU bound, but I could be wrong. I also have a lot of the AC settings turned down, but with the "shaders patch" it still looks brilliant  :).
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bird on April 09, 2019, 11:23:08 AM
Well, I'm running a i7-6700k which *can* run at 4.5, but I'm just letting it run on default (4GHz) but this does not matter in this case, IMO.

If you look at thursdays, you guys always run interesting mods.  Now, unoptimised mods (which is a lot of them, tbh) used to cause moderate to severe frame drops in the past.  I'm sure this hasn't changed.

So the measuring stick is a tad faulty, I reckon :)
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: rooshooter on April 09, 2019, 04:36:10 PM

So the measuring stick is a tad faulty, I reckon :)

As usual Bird you are right ::).
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: buellersdayoff on April 10, 2019, 12:08:31 PM
...My 1080ti struggles with 3840x2160 on my singlescreen ...

That's weird, my 1080 Ti (zotac, slightly oc'd) does not seem to struggle with my 4k screen at all.  Could it be some other factor?  Or maybe your definition of struggle is different? :)
I prefer a FPS of 80plus , I find sometimes on Thursdays I get down to 60FPS, I am running an 1st. gen i7, i7 860 oc'd to 3.9gig and I don't think my system is CPU bound, but I could be wrong. I also have a lot of the AC settings turned down, but with the "shaders patch" it still looks brilliant  :).
If you run msi afterburner in the background then look at the graph for gpu usage you'll be able to tell if you're cpu limited, gpu usage should be as close to 100% as possible
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: rooshooter on April 10, 2019, 03:46:12 PM
...My 1080ti struggles with 3840x2160 on my singlescreen ...

That's weird, my 1080 Ti (zotac, slightly oc'd) does not seem to struggle with my 4k screen at all.  Could it be some other factor?  Or maybe your definition of struggle is different? :)
I prefer a FPS of 80plus , I find sometimes on Thursdays I get down to 60FPS, I am running an 1st. gen i7, i7 860 oc'd to 3.9gig and I don't think my system is CPU bound, but I could be wrong. I also have a lot of the AC settings turned down, but with the "shaders patch" it still looks brilliant  :).
If you run msi afterburner in the background then look at the graph for gpu usage you'll be able to tell if you're cpu limited, gpu usage should be as close to 100% as possible
Thanks Bueller I will give it a go :).
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: killagorilla on April 13, 2019, 12:02:29 PM
So what's the consensus: virtual reality vs triples?
Having tried VR on multiple occasions, using a quad monitor setup and knowing what mates/users and people say on forums I'm not so sure if there is a consensus at all...at least a broad one.
It seems it's leaning towards VR a bit.
HTC vive and the Rift is out of the question for me because of (in this order) poor resolution, limited of FOV, comfort issues and I like being aware of my surroundings and seeing my gear.
I believe I will end up using VR at some point in time, but I'm starting to doubt a bit that the current technology using closed goggles with these lenses (needed because the human eye can't focus distances <7cm, they are getting bigger and bigger to provide more FOV) is getting results I'd be happy with.
After browsing forums and getting feedback from Pimax users I figured this thing most likely won't do it for me so the only high-end system in development I know of is StarVR.
It seems to be good, but it will be expensive and demanding on your graphics card. In the end I guess we have to hear what actual users, who spent money on it, will say about it. As mentioned before there are financial issues with Starbreeze as well.
What I've got in mind as a potential solution are two tiny curved screens integrated in an open and very light headset where the screens are kept at a distance of >7cm from each eye. That would eliminate the need for lenses at all and all the issues coming with them (which seem to be pretty much impossible to solve because of physical realities). Yes, the headset would be a bit larger, but I think they can be significantly lighter than current systems and having some natural airflow around this area of your face may make it more pleasant/comfortable to wear. I've never read or heard anyone discussing this technology/system so no idea why and if that's actually possible...I'm just a layman in this field.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bird on April 13, 2019, 06:51:19 PM
I think, killa, you can't eliminate the lenses, unless your target market is under 28.   As you age, your eye is going to be way off the 7cm mark.  I know mine is at least 30cm (minimum focus length - when my eyes aren't tired!) and I'm pretty good for my age.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: killagorilla on April 13, 2019, 08:41:40 PM
Hmm, guess you're right...wasn't well thought through, was it? Yeah, then you'd need special glasses for just this purpose. Don't know if that makes sense.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: Bird on April 14, 2019, 08:13:35 AM
Hmm, guess you're right...wasn't well thought through, was it? Yeah, then you'd need special glasses for just this purpose. Don't know if that makes sense.
Well, that's another way, certainly; design the headset so it can be used with reading glasses.
But 7cm is extremely close, there's heaps of people who don't use reading glasses but are off the 7cm mark (see myself, again). 
And even if you're good to read at 7cm,  it's probably not good for your eyes to do that for any length of time.
So I don't think designers would opt for that solution.
Title: Re: VR - exciting times ahead...
Post by: killagorilla on April 14, 2019, 09:48:04 AM
Hmm, guess you're right...wasn't well thought through, was it? Yeah, then you'd need special glasses for just this purpose. Don't know if that makes sense.
Well, that's another way, certainly; design the headset so it can be used with reading glasses.
But 7cm is extremely close, there's heaps of people who don't use reading glasses but are off the 7cm mark (see myself, again). 
And even if you're good to read at 7cm,  it's probably not good for your eyes to do that for any length of time.
So I don't think designers would opt for that solution.
Guess you're right.