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Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on November 01, 2018, 11:32:57 PM

Title: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 01, 2018, 11:32:57 PM
Hey, if you've posted a short tail time, can you please give the long tail a go too? I've got a feeling it's got too much restrictor.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 02, 2018, 12:27:48 AM
In fact, I've restarted the server with no restrictor for the long tail.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: kcender87 on November 02, 2018, 03:25:16 PM
done :)
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 02, 2018, 06:11:44 PM
done :)
Thanks. It looks like maaaybe the short tail is a bit fast and needs a little restrictor. A bit more testing required.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: kcender87 on November 02, 2018, 07:22:16 PM
it will suffer hard at daytona and anywhere else with long straights thought - its probably fine :P
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Mael on November 02, 2018, 07:54:50 PM
done :)
Thanks. It looks like maaaybe the short tail is a bit fast and needs a little restrictor. A bit more testing required.

Yeah well if Kcender did the time it will end up with 100% restrictor!
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Bacchulum on November 02, 2018, 08:59:06 PM
done :)
Thanks. It looks like maaaybe the short tail is a bit fast and needs a little restrictor. A bit more testing required.
I tested Spa in the shorty at your '2 stop' fuel multiplier (2.9 correct?) and needed 317 litres for 1 hour, with a 99 litre tank. :-[
Which car did you work out the multiplier in?
I think the shorty has a smaller tank than the others, maybe an equalizer? ???
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 02, 2018, 09:49:54 PM
done :)
Thanks. It looks like maaaybe the short tail is a bit fast and needs a little restrictor. A bit more testing required.
I tested Spa in the shorty at your '2 stop' fuel multiplier (2.9 correct?) and needed 317 litres for 1 hour, with a 99 litre tank. :-[
Which car did you work out the multiplier in?
I think the shorty has a smaller tank than the others, maybe an equalizer? ???
They all have 100l tanks, but fuel economies vary (the short tail has the worst economy). I tested at two different season tracks that worked out to 2 stoppers for all cars, but different tracks may give different results.
I'm thinking that with the variables, the cars and multipliers should be fine. I like the dilemma of having to balance pace with fuel economy. And the long tail does weird things with rear tyre wear (with the default setup, at least).
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 02, 2018, 10:30:15 PM
Apologies Bacchulum, I had originally done my fuel calcs for a 50 min race, not a 60 min race. I have revised the multipliers to:
2.4x for a 2-stopper1.5x for a 1-stopper
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 03, 2018, 12:58:29 AM
I have reset the Porsche times on the practice server. I'm trying 50% restrictor for the short tail, and no restrictor for the long tail.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 03, 2018, 04:11:29 PM
The cars are looking like a better spread now. The top 4 times (different people, admittedly) are in each of the 4 cars.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: killagorilla on November 03, 2018, 07:58:15 PM
Grat's almost got Kcender's time in the long tail...see what happens when he's changing into the (imo faster) long tail himself.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Bacchulum on November 03, 2018, 08:29:26 PM
I tried to help with some data, Wally.
My times are medium tyres, full tanks for all cars, turbo @ 70% for the adjustable ones (highest boost without engine damage), ie. race pace.
Short Tail probably a bit quick by comparison, simply because I've done more laps in it.
The other 3 have had the same effort. ;)
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Phil.8 on November 03, 2018, 08:31:59 PM
how do you do a 2.12 in the merc, I cant get it around a lap
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 03, 2018, 10:37:49 PM
I tried to help with some data, Wally.
My times are medium tyres, full tanks for all cars, turbo @ 70% for the adjustable ones (highest boost without engine damage), ie. race pace.
Short Tail probably a bit quick by comparison, simply because I've done more laps in it.
The other 3 have had the same effort. ;)
Thanks. I'm happy with how the times are looking now, bearing in mind the differences in drivers and tracks.
how do you do a 2.12 in the merc, I cant get it around a lap

My thoughts exactly. It's a funny beast, the Merc. Prodigiously fast in a straight line, but slow in corners. It would take some learning to get the most out of it, but could be a weapon in the right hands. It also has the best fuel economy, so would give you the most pitstop flexibility.



Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 04, 2018, 07:43:08 AM
The cars are very close, especially taking into account the little difference over a 2:00+ lap time:

1.Kcender87 ks_porsche_962c_longtail 02:11.593+00.00000:35.74301:01.56000:34.290yes 122018-11-03 13:02
2.grat ks_porsche_962c_shorttail 02:12.032+00.43900:37.85200:59.49000:34.690- 162018-11-03 17:25
3.Kcender87 ks_mercedes_c9 02:12.963+01.37000:36.05901:01.96100:34.943yes 82018-11-03 16:07
4.Kcender87 ks_mazda_787b 02:13.028+01.43500:37.11601:01.50600:34.406yes 72018-11-03 16:20
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: grat on November 04, 2018, 08:49:46 AM
As of now I have only tested the short tail one---with which I am a bit familiar, so 16 laps may be more representative of like 25 laps.

On mediums and half thank, I can do low 2:14 and sometime 2:13. Low fuel and softs was in 2:12, but rears were staring to let go after 4 or 5 laps.

The problem is that it is so ridiculously slow in the straights and so much better in corners (have a look at the graph. I had a brief race with Seanus and it was hard not to crash given the huge differences in speed at different parts of the track. Have a look at the lap graph comparing mine with Kcender's one in the long tail.


Considering that Kcender's lap was on mediums, right now my impression is that the short tail has too much restrictor. Hell, I could take Eau Rouge and Blanchimont flat out! That should not be ;)
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 04, 2018, 10:21:56 AM
I don't mind the short tail being a little bit slower, because it's one of the easier cars to drive. I like to force a little compromise - do I pick the shorty because it's safer and easier to drive but a fraction slower, or do I risk a harder to drive but faster car? The Merc is also ridiculously fast in a straight line, but slow in the corners, so all the cars will have strengths and weaknesses at different points.
In the limited amount of laps done, Freezer is 0.2 secs faster in the long than the short. Bacchulum is 0.4 secs faster in the short. I call that close enough :)

Having said all of that, the Mazda seems to fit the middle ground very nicely at the moment.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: grat on November 04, 2018, 11:27:22 AM
Sure. Makes sense. I'll try to test long tail and mazda in the coming days.

Do we have a fun race this Tuesday?
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Phil.8 on November 04, 2018, 11:33:46 AM
I am only testing the Mazda and Sauber because the other 2 are Porsche and if I don't have to drive them I am not going to :)
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 04, 2018, 11:48:13 AM
Sure. Makes sense. I'll try to test long tail and mazda in the coming days.

Do we have a fun race this Tuesday?
Yes: http://xgn.com.au/index.php?topic=2411.0
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Bacchulum on November 04, 2018, 11:57:56 AM
I picked the Shorty because it has the most forgiving gearbox, so I can left foot brake again. :-X
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Phil.8 on November 04, 2018, 12:15:14 PM
I will probably go the Felix Wankel powered car just because I love saying Felix Wankel, but I have to have a decent try of the Merc yet and see if I can learn to brake 200 meters earlier because it does sound pretty cool
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Freezer on November 04, 2018, 12:20:07 PM
I will probably go the Felix Wankel powered car just because I love saying Felix Wankel, but I have to have a decent try of the Merc yet and see if I can learn to brake 200 meters earlier because it does sound pretty cool
The Merc is 30km/h faster than shorty up Kemmel Straight, but doesn't stop/turn as well!
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 04, 2018, 01:03:56 PM
I am hoping to manage the Merc, because I love the sound of it too.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: kcender87 on November 04, 2018, 01:50:25 PM
The merc has some crazy thing called a diff which should give a better opportunity to make it handle at low speed but its still lacks a bit of front end aero balance because LM
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 05, 2018, 08:03:58 AM
The merc has some crazy thing called a diff which should give a better opportunity to make it handle at low speed but its still lacks a bit of front end aero balance because LM
Yeah, I've had some success tweaking the diff. I still have to put the power down gently in most places to avoid snap oversteer. I am starting to be able to drive it more consistently though.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: kcender87 on November 05, 2018, 09:55:51 AM
The merc has some crazy thing called a diff which should give a better opportunity to make it handle at low speed but its still lacks a bit of front end aero balance because LM
Yeah, I've had some success tweaking the diff. I still have to put the power down gently in most places to avoid snap oversteer. I am starting to be able to drive it more consistently though.

Likewise - even with stupidly long 1st and 2nd gears its a struggle - still making it turn with the diff wide open as it can go it a mission which suggests its in the geometry somewhere as I can make the spool longtail go round corners better :P
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Joe on November 05, 2018, 10:25:05 AM
Reading all this sounds like I really should try these cars a little tonight before the fun run tomorrow. Haven't done a lap in any yet  :o
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: kcender87 on November 05, 2018, 03:04:30 PM
should be a good combo of cars and strengths - i was in the longtail and following someone in the C9 and even though i was closing fast through Eau Rouge etc when we reached the kemmel it just f*cked off! caught it again in the mid section but even though the porsche was faster over the lap finding somewhere to put a pass on was hard - should make for an interesting season
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 05, 2018, 05:12:35 PM
Yep, I hope so... and throw in 1 or 2 pitstops and we will have some interesting strategic decisions to make. Not to mention choice of tyre compounds....
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: bradc on November 05, 2018, 09:36:22 PM
I tried all the cars last night and I love the noise of the C9, however it's lap times just don't seem to reflect the vehicle. The Short Porsche under breaking was sensational, but I don't like beetles so I guess I need some more Mazda practice as I found it was a lot faster than the Merc, but had a lot of understeer. That said i literally ran bog stock setups and simply drove the cars as hard as I could....more homework is required
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Bacchulum on November 06, 2018, 02:27:11 PM
Apologies Bacchulum, I had originally done my fuel calcs for a 50 min race, not a 60 min race. I have revised the multipliers to:
2.4x for a 2-stopper1.5x for a 1-stopper
I don't see the short tail doing a 2 stopper all season, except in the 1 stopper races. :(
The restrictor has lifted fuel economy around Daytona from 9.11-9.41 litres/lap.
That's 347.8 litres for a 37 lap race (1 safety lap), and that's a long way from a 2 stopper.

So I don't see many takers for the short tail, as it's the slowest and needs an extra stop. :-X
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 06, 2018, 03:03:35 PM
Apologies Bacchulum, I had originally done my fuel calcs for a 50 min race, not a 60 min race. I have revised the multipliers to:
2.4x for a 2-stopper1.5x for a 1-stopper
I don't see the short tail doing a 2 stopper all season, except in the 1 stopper races. :(
The restrictor has lifted fuel economy around Daytona from 9.11-9.41 litres/lap.
That's 347.8 litres for a 37 lap race (1 safety lap), and that's a long way from a 2 stopper.

So I don't see many takers for the short tail, as it's the slowest and needs an extra stop. :-X
I'll check and adjust fuel multiplier accordingly. I don't want to penalise any car to need more stops than the others.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Bacchulum on November 06, 2018, 04:48:41 PM
Further testing shows Sebring and Road Atlanta may not need extra stops, but will need fuel saving.
Title: Re: Need more Porsche Long Tail times!
Post by: Wally on November 06, 2018, 11:23:03 PM
Further testing shows Sebring and Road Atlanta may not need extra stops, but will need fuel saving.
I'll drop the 2 stop fuel multiplier down to 2.3.