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Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on February 09, 2019, 06:17:58 PM

Title: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Wally on February 09, 2019, 06:17:58 PM
Next Tuesday is the final round of the Porsche car dealer trial season.

What I want to change after this trial is:Then I want to have a "proper" 7 or 8 week season, using the updated car dealer. The thing will be to choose some cars. I want to use the following 1 or 2 weeks to try some car combos, just for fun. We need 5 to 7 cars or thereabouts, that need to be pretty close in speed but still have a range of speeds, and cars that don't need a huge amount of setup would be good too. Maybe just use a single make and apply a range of restrictor to create a spread of speeds? That would give closer times but be less interesting.

So put your thinking caps on and suggest some car combos. You can use my car ranking times here (https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/car-time-ranking.22389/) as a guide.

Here's some ideas:

A mixed bag of "racy" cars, with all sort of different characteristics:
Lotus 2-Eleven GT4 (66400)
Alfa Romeo 155 TI V6 (65700)
Mercedes-Benz 190E EVO II (65300)
BMW M3 E30 Gr.A 92 (64800)
BMW M235i Racing (64100)
Ford GT40 (63800)


Or street cars, with limited setup:
Lotus Evora S (57200)
Alfa Romeo 4C (56300)
Abarth 500 Assetto Corse (55800)
BMW 1M Stage 3 (54300)
Ford Mustang 2015 (53500)
BMW Z4 E89 Step1 (52700)
Nissan Skyline GTR R34 V-Spec (52200)
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Bird on February 10, 2019, 04:00:56 PM
I vote for street cars, they are usually more fun, closer racing :)
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Seanus on February 10, 2019, 09:01:34 PM
I vote for street cars, they are usually more fun, closer racing :)

I would like to neutralise that vote as I feel street cars are the bane of this game. i.e boring as all get out.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Wally on February 11, 2019, 07:58:04 AM
Me personally, I like any car that gives good, close racing.

Something else we could do is take a bunch of GT3 cars and apply a bit of different restrictor to some of them to spread their performances and costs out a little. But that takes some work then to get the balance right.

Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Bird on February 11, 2019, 08:57:22 AM
Me personally, I like any car that gives good, close racing.

Something else we could do is take a bunch of GT3 cars and apply a bit of different restrictor to some of them to spread their performances and costs out a little. But that takes some work then to get the balance right.



I bet you that anything will take a season or two to sort out properly. :)
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Mael on February 11, 2019, 10:57:02 AM
After a number of seasons with rather tricky cars I call for street car, for example BMW M1. easy to drive with TC for anyone who prefers it. Would also represent a realistic presentation of states of tune according to the owners financial acumen.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Bacchulum on February 11, 2019, 11:02:38 AM
The one thing I noticed, as it personally effected me, is if you miss a round you get the same money as the winner.
Doesn't matter if you're winning, but kills you if you're down the back. :'(
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Wally on February 11, 2019, 11:53:51 AM
The one thing I noticed, as it personally effected me, is if you miss a round you get the same money as the winner.
Doesn't matter if you're winning, but kills you if you're down the back. :'(
I think that will be fixed by not letting so many people get rich over time. In the trial, people earned too much and got up the car list (and stayed there).
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Bird on February 11, 2019, 11:59:06 AM
The one thing I noticed, as it personally effected me, is if you miss a round you get the same money as the winner.
Doesn't matter if you're winning, but kills you if you're down the back. :'(
I think that will be fixed by not letting so many people get rich over time. In the trial, people earned too much and got up the car list (and stayed there).

I still maintain the issue is that you keep your car :)

Missed rounds...well you definitely should not earn money for not turning up!
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Seanus on February 11, 2019, 12:51:27 PM
OT, maybe it'll become a thread of its own.

Voluntary ballast with each unit of ballast carrying a points multiplier.
So if you are purely set on race wins then carry no ballast.
If the championship is what you are aiming for then choose a ballast that still lets you perform but carries enough points to keep your championship position high.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Wally on February 11, 2019, 01:48:51 PM
OT, maybe it'll become a thread of its own.

Voluntary ballast with each unit of ballast carrying a points multiplier.
So if you are purely set on race wins then carry no ballast.
If the championship is what you are aiming for then choose a ballast that still lets you perform but carries enough points to keep your championship position high.
That's an interesting idea. I like it. You can gamble how much ballast you can cope with and still get a good result.
Title: throw in some ideas!
Post by: Seanus on February 11, 2019, 01:56:05 PM
I'll start a thread in Thursday's forum, we should be able to test it there.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Phil.8 on February 11, 2019, 07:08:13 PM
just have it so you start with a crapo car and x amount of dollars and you keep the car each week and your x amount of $ and can afford first upgrade to a new car after a week, or could stay in cheap car for 2 weeks and get an even better car

Cars could all be same car and all start with for example x% restrictor and ballast added and after 1 week could afford to have your car made lighter or more powerful by maybe removing seats and replace with racing seats and take out unneeded interior bits and stuff out or say a exhaust extractor carby  or cam, or whatever you want to call it upgrade for the power upgrade, after 2 weeks afford your second upgrade to eventually have both ballast and restrictor back at standard.

Could get really complex where a fully upgraded car was only just a little slower than the next new car you can buy if you could be bothered making it that complex with multiple cars,  but just one car would still work with enough "upgrades" to buy
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on February 11, 2019, 08:12:38 PM
Why don't you have everyone start in the Reliant Robin and then allow people to use their $$$ to repaint the car?
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Phil.8 on February 11, 2019, 08:17:35 PM
Why don't you have everyone start in the Reliant Robin and then allow people to use their $$$ to repaint the car?


perfect
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: bradc on February 11, 2019, 08:21:52 PM
Sorry that I’ve not raced many of these as I’ve had a bit going on with work. My 2cents is that I like the concept but I think there needs to be some reward for showing up and finishing races. As to th sort of car, my preference is for something with big horsepower and bigger all grip compared to high grip, low power cars
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Wally on February 11, 2019, 08:35:53 PM
Why don't you have everyone start in the Reliant Robin and then allow people to use their $$$ to repaint the car?
My Little Pony paintjob coming right up.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Seanus on February 11, 2019, 09:08:22 PM
It's sorely missing from all race sim's but, a high fidelity AI driver would serves us well as we could get representative times for each level of BOP or between cars.
But having just said that, if it is only one car with different amounts of ballast then AC's current AI should be able to measure the differences.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: killagorilla on February 11, 2019, 11:26:35 PM
It's a tricky concept...not an easy task getting it right. Differences in the performance of the cars can be very big...and that means close battles for position are reduced. How can I race a driver in a Carrera R driving a Carrera S myself? It doesn't work. It will level the overall standings, but you need a large field so everyone has someone to race with.
Guess nothing gets more close racing than a one make with ballast/restrictor for the guys in the lead or winning races.
However, keep in mind I haven't done this for long so I'm content with doing just this normal racing. I can understand that if you've done this for a long time something like the car dealer is more interesting.
I'll go along with what you're coming up with. Don't really have an opinion on race cars vs road cars.
As I don't always have enough time to prepare, it's handy for me to race just one car for a while where you can use a setup and maybe just tweak it slightly.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Wally on February 12, 2019, 07:56:52 AM
It's sorely missing from all race sim's but, a high fidelity AI driver would serves us well as we could get representative times for each level of BOP or between cars.
But having just said that, if it is only one car with different amounts of ballast then AC's current AI should be able to measure the differences.
I've already been using the AI to see the effect of ballast and restrictor on any particular make of car, since the AI use the same physics. The AI gives a pretty good, consistent indication of the slow down. Human lap times are too inconsistent.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Wally on February 12, 2019, 08:02:29 AM
It's a tricky concept...not an easy task getting it right. Differences in the performance of the cars can be very big...and that means close battles for position are reduced. How can I race a driver in a Carrera R driving a Carrera S myself? It doesn't work. It will level the overall standings, but you need a large field so everyone has someone to race with.
Guess nothing gets more close racing than a one make with ballast/restrictor for the guys in the lead or winning races.
However, keep in mind I haven't done this for long so I'm content with doing just this normal racing. I can understand that if you've done this for a long time something like the car dealer is more interesting.
I'll go along with what you're coming up with. Don't really have an opinion on race cars vs road cars.
As I don't always have enough time to prepare, it's handy for me to race just one car for a while where you can use a setup and maybe just tweak it slightly.
Fair points. Yes, it's really just to try something new and mix it up a bit. We used to use a car dealer many years ago, and it's good to try it again, but we certainly won't be using it all the time. The closest racing is when you apply a performance based handicap with restrictor or ballast, which we also sometimes do.
Title: Re: Coming weeks - throw in some ideas!
Post by: Bird on February 12, 2019, 09:28:45 AM
The car dealer is partially about the close racing, partially about giving everyone a chance to lead here and there.  To "mix it up".   To be consistently at the back is very tyring, and there's usually quite a few people around who cannot put many hours into practice each week.   

The car dealer can give them a boost of fun.  ;)

Btw; talking about close racing; I don't think you can achieve that for everyone in any way in a small field (not with the same car that's for sure).  The difference in skill means there'll be groups.   
The car dealer mixes the field up.
Now, of course each track is different, one car maybe more advantageous at one track compared to the other.

But the cars need to be fairly close in performance; eg if you have an alien, who can lap 2-3s faster, they need a 2-3s/lap slower car to even it out.   So as you can see, the selection of cars would have to be dependent on the field of participants as well, to some extent.    (although if you have to buy the cars weekly, and not keep it, I think it balances things out pretty darn quickly, and to a good extent)

But it can work.     It has worked in GTL and we only had a handful of cars to play with  8)

I think the one thing to aim for is that the biggest difference in car performance should be just over the greatest laptime difference between Alien Joe and Turtle Harry.