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A proposal for discussion - more grip

Author Topic: A proposal for discussion - more grip  (Read 15155 times)

Offline Gratulin

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2015, 06:32:05 PM »
My Ferrari already has water droplets on the front bonnet. Is that why I'm slipping and sliding?

Online Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2015, 05:57:32 PM »
Managed to do a dozen laps earlier with the extra grip.  Felt like I was in an F1 car, just point and shoot.

I'd imagine the open wheelers would feel like you were in a space ship or something.

I think the field should be a little closer though as it seems a lot easier.

Online Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2015, 06:18:51 PM »
Managed to do a dozen laps earlier with the extra grip.  Felt like I was in an F1 car, just point and shoot.

I'd imagine the open wheelers would feel like you were in a space ship or something.

I think the field should be a little closer though as it seems a lot easier.

You're clearly not pushing hard enough ;)
This is the type of inexperienced track day feeling I'm trying to emulate. Even the V8 I drove felt point and shoot, pretty much.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Online Bacchulum

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2015, 09:18:20 PM »
I still can't control the arse on corner entry, seems like all the extra grip is going to the front only. :-[

Online Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2015, 05:31:00 PM »
Do you plan on having a vote or something to see if the extra grip stays Wally, or is more of a trial just to see what it's like?

Online Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2015, 05:58:59 PM »
Do you plan on having a vote or something to see if the extra grip stays Wally, or is more of a trial just to see what it's like?
That's the plan. It is a trial, to see what it's like, to actually try it. Then discuss it and put it to the vote. Rest assured, it's not a foregone conclusion by any means. It's just an experiment.
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Online Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2015, 05:59:54 PM »
I still can't control the arse on corner entry, seems like all the extra grip is going to the front only. :-[
It's just the surface friction that's been increased, so it must surely be all round. It may need some setup tweaks to balance the car.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Online Bacchulum

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2015, 07:01:25 PM »
I still can't control the arse on corner entry, seems like all the extra grip is going to the front only. :-[
It's just the surface friction that's been increased, so it must surely be all round. It may need some setup tweaks to balance the car.
It could affect it, for example:
(arbitrary figures)
Normally I get 100% grip front, 90% rear, a 10% difference;
With the increase I get 110% front, 99% rear, an 11% difference;
The more grip, the better the braking, the more weight transfer, the lighter the rear.
Maybe this is wrong but it feels 10% worse.

Either way, the car always felt planted apex-off (which is what you said you were after), it's corner entry I'm struggling with.

Online Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #83 on: June 08, 2015, 07:35:52 PM »
I still can't control the arse on corner entry, seems like all the extra grip is going to the front only. :-[
It's just the surface friction that's been increased, so it must surely be all round. It may need some setup tweaks to balance the car.
It could affect it, for example:
(arbitrary figures)
Normally I get 100% grip front, 90% rear, a 10% difference;
With the increase I get 110% front, 99% rear, an 11% difference;
The more grip, the better the braking, the more weight transfer, the lighter the rear.
Maybe this is wrong but it feels 10% worse.

Either way, the car always felt planted apex-off (which is what you said you were after), it's corner entry I'm struggling with.

I don't think that's right. You have 100% of the available grip at the front, 90% at the rear. If the overall grip goes up, you'll still have 100% of the available grip at the front and 90% of the rear. You should get more grip front and back, still in the same ratio (100:90).
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Online Bacchulum

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2015, 08:06:47 PM »
You're probably right Wally.

But this whole discussion is about feel and it feels worse with the extra grip.

Online Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2015, 09:02:39 PM »
You're probably right Wally.

But this whole discussion is about feel and it feels worse with the extra grip.

Hold that thought :)
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline marty

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2015, 11:22:22 PM »
The extra grip will generate more load then intended even if its only 10% more here then under braking more weight will shift forward and also in cornering. Sure if you drive it the same as if it was 100% grip then it will just feel more planted and things wont change much. But if you use the extra grip and still push to the limits of grip especially in cars with not much setup options like the p1 you may find its quicker but quite a bit worse to drive. Push the p1 at imola with the extra grip and it bottoms out in a few spots as the suspension struggles to deal with the extra loads.

I think kunos have a fair idea about physics and grip and the main reason its my prefered sim is because of this. Messing with grip levels above what should be possible for any reason just seems odd to me. The cars are as expected about 3 or 4 seconds a lap quicker with the extra grip and no longer resemble close to the real world cars they are trying to simulate.

They still slide on the limit but just handle as if having an extremely soft and sticky slick tyre rather then the durable semi slicks they are meant to run. With the extra grip the cars are also more prone to  getting a tank slapper as it regains grip more violently.

The best way to simulate driving further from the limit is to simply drive more under the limit, not add grip which still doesnt make much sense to me. I think doing a 1:38 at 100% grip is not much different to doing 1:34 at 110% grip. Sure doing 1:38 pace with 110% grip will be more planted but that would still be the same as doing 1:42 at 100% grip. Your only moving the limit and unless there are next going to be speed limits in the race people will always drive as close to the limit as they can. This can be any grip level but going beyond 100% causes other issues in some cars as they are operating beyond their intended loads.