Xtreme Gaming Network
Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on June 09, 2015, 10:17:22 PM
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What did you think of the 110% grip now that we've actually tried it?
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I quite liked the feel of the raised grip. Like Freezer said in the Imola post-race chat, it made the cars feel more planted, as they would feel in real life, instead of feeling like they were drifting in every single corner. I could definitely still slide the McLaren, spin, make mistakes etc. In no way could I say the car was ”glued to the track”.
On the downside, there were times when the car kind of hopped or bounced a little, possibly because the road suspension was not equipped for the extra traction, which you could look at like putting soft slicks on the car.
Of more concern to me is the admin overhead. If we kept this up, we'd have to have customized versions of all the tracks we used, for download, and figure out an appropriate grip increase for different cars. It also sets you apart from setting RSR lap times, if that's your thing. If AC simply allowed the grip setting to go over 100%, I'd think again.
So I did like the way it felt on track, but I'm not for it because of the extra work.
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While you maybe right - I don't really have a comparison to track days - I did not like it, because it made driving the car much harder (near the limit). Maybe it's just these cars, but they felt way too planted. The near arcade-level grip made it really difficult to find the limits and drive there.
But it was an interesting test, certainly! ;)
Oh; and an added pain; any good laps just go down the drain. I can't get that nice feeling "hey I'm 3rd on RSR!" :D
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found this on the net
"Aris the physics guy for Assetto Corsa on AC forum said, to replicate real life you have to drive P1 and LaFerrari on road tires...track grip to be set on slow or green and 10-13C track temp....default setup on P1 is full slick tires, Aris said they did this so new people to the game wouldn't get intimidated by difficulty and stop playing AC. Discussion here. http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/mclaren-p1-vs-the-ferrari.21657/"
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While I voted no, I didn't 'hate' it, I still had fun last night. As a relatively new sim racer, but somebody who has played a lot of Forza games, it kind of felt like stepping back towards Forza in a way. One thing I've had to learn with AC is throttle control to maintain grip, but I found I didn't really need to care about it so much last night and could just floor it out of the corners and the car would still hold on. Similarly with braking you could pretty much just press the pedal right down and it wouldn't lock up.
For me it's probably more I want the game to remain consistent as I'm learning. If I'm playing on XGN server or other servers I want it to feel the same.
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"While I voted no, I didn't 'hate' it," I DID NOT have fun last night.
I did test the extra grip up to just before last night and then the PC crapped itself. My main concern was the the cars, already very fast, were going to be too quick in the race.
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found this on the net
"Aris the physics guy for Assetto Corsa on AC forum said, to replicate real life you have to drive P1 and LaFerrari on road tires...track grip to be set on slow or green and 10-13C track temp....default setup on P1 is full slick tires, Aris said they did this so new people to the game wouldn't get intimidated by difficulty and stop playing AC. Discussion here. http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/mclaren-p1-vs-the-ferrari.21657/"
That makes sense as I did run both cars at Nords with regular optimum grip and looking at the replays it looked like an arcade game with the grip it gets around the corners. I did drive the p1 at Nords with the road tyres and it was more believable cornering speeds and so this is a long way from the sticky tyres with even more grip.
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I thought the test went well last night and we definitely had some great racing with it, but over all I would like to stay with the 'normal' settings. Like Bird said, I too like the RSR rankings and it also felt like the extra grip unbalanced some cars more than others. But a good night was had and I don't mind experimenting :P.
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I will quote Aris posts in that thread which Phil.8 linked to. The track grip and temps are regarding the Nordschleiffe.
AC by default simulates a nirvana optimum grip. This is good as theoretically this grip can be achieved... but probably never will be. Also it is good for mass market and helps the new comers to have a less hard impact with simracing world. That's also why we put the semislicks tires as default choice. Good for new comers means more sales and more sales means more licenses which is a good thing for everybody.
Hardcore simracers should know better and use the proper tyres, the proper circuit grip, the proper ambient temp and so on. It's not that hard to do and should give them more satisfaction. But as usual, we always get complains from "hardcore simmers" for too much grip or whatever... it is a bit strange how one can called himself hardcore but spent no time to investigate and find the proper setting. Anyway, sorry for the rant, I do understand that everybody sees things in a different perspective and everybody has a valid point.
In the particular case of the nurburgring, here are some things to remember. It's cold and humid. Even at the summer. When I crashed my M3 some years ago (where you can see the ARIS KURVE as my friends actually draw that graffiti on the track for real LOL), it was mid august... I was time attacking and rain started heavily with "rivers" crossing the road. I aquaplaned at 170kmh... **** happens.
So yeah for the ring I would put the track to slow maybe and certainly keep the ambient temperature always under 15°C
Have fun :D
Here is regarding the tyres for these cars being actual cut slicks not the tyres the cars really run.
Just to clear up the tyres situations as we understand it is confusing to some... What follows is only for the hardcore simracers :D
When TopGear tested the Pagani Hauyra, the laptime was nothing sort of incredible... the fans noted that the car had some "strange" tyres fitted for the fastlap and in the end both TG and Pagani admitted that the car was fitted with some "special tyres". Those tyres were actually slick tyres, hand cut with some rudimental tread.
We simulated those tyres in the huayra and so we are using them (in the correct dimensions) in the other hypercars too. They are trully slick tyres, even way too grippy and probably they last too much... We called them trofeo because... too long story... but they are proper slicks
The actual cars though do use the street tyres and if you want absolute realism and laptimes, then I would recommend street tyres and green track conditions with cold weather.
Have fun and don't stay safe, it's virtual so you don't have to pay if you destroy one single prototype that costs a million :D
I did always feel these cars were way too quick and grippy already, the p1 is way more fun to drive with the road tyres. Seeing in races we will all be using the slicks anyway I really dont think we need any more grip then these already give us.
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Here is a little article on what it is really like to drive LaFerrari . . . and they don't mention 'arcade like' once!!
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ferrari/laferrari (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ferrari/laferrari)
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I still think that AC over-does the under steering on some cars, such as the standard 458.
The rest I likeys as is though.
Maybe next we should try a round with reduced grip, settings as suggested by Aris above?
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The reduced grip would mostly be in the tyres using road tyres and not the slick option. The track settings aris suggest are mostly to do with Nords but would be relevant to Spa a bit too. Still a server has no way of setting temps etc so only grip levels and no way of forcing tyre per server but if ptracker is used by all we could easily make sure everyone was to use the road tyre. Still being more of a cup race using the slicks isnt so bad as any race series that runs even road car based classes will normally run a track specific tyre not the stock street variant.
This would be going away the exact opposite way to what Wally's idea is, still the main issue is nearly everyone will overdrive every car in a sim but get put into the real thing youd need quite a few laps and some confidence before pushing anywhere near the same levels. People will always push hard in a sim and unless there are track speedlimits like at the 24hr race at Nordschleife this year lol your not going to slow people down. There were 2 guys that lost their nords license during that race for not slowing in slow zones or exceeding the set speed limits.
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Didn't hate it, wasn't as bad as I thought but in the end of the day they are road cars on roadish tyres lol and I think we should just keep it all as intended by kunos as that's the most accurate representation. Still had fun but one thing I missed was the evolving track I really like that challenge.
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I did try the P1 at Nords the way that aris suggested road tyres, had 15c overcast and slow grip. Ended up 15c ambient and 11c track, grip 95% and the car was far from the same sort of silly speed it is with the slicks. optimum grip and 26/32 temps.
Lap times were 6:21 the optimum mp setup and 6:56 with the more realistic settings, its really quite manageable and easier to drive with the slower setup. As long as you remember not to brake as late as with the grippy slicks and not take as much speed through the corners but its not really any more drifty then it is with slicks. Getting around Nords in those very quick conditions makes it much trickier actually I think and in those conditions you need to drive much more as you would in a real track day because the cars limits are much more realistic so you simply cant over drive it as you would with the slicks.
If you carry as much speed then you will just wont make the corner and looking at the replay the car looks more like street cars do around the track and seeing the 918 is still officialy the quickest around the track at 6:57 and this is using the odd standard timing. They start the clock at the start line near turn 1 but end it at the finish line just after the last turn which knocks about 4 seconds off the laptime.
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Here is a little article on what it is really like to drive LaFerrari . . . and they don't mention 'arcade like' once!!
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ferrari/laferrari (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ferrari/laferrari)
”Its responses may be massive, its grip vast and its performance envelope borderline insane, but it also feels surprisingly, well, normal in the way it drives.”
”Never before have I driven a mid-engined car that feels so well balanced, so comfortable, when its rear tyres are lit and you’ve got half an armful of corrective lock applied. In my head, in my world, you should not be able to drive a car like this, like that, but believe me; anyone who knows broadly what they are doing behind the wheel could do exactly the same thing in it after a while. And that’s purely because the car has been engineered to allow most people to be able to drive it hard, really hard, without scaring themselves.”
These kinds of feelings have never been captured by a sim - not just AC, any sim. You just end up spinning, sliding, understeering, oversteering. Maybe it's just impossible without G forces and a dash of equal parts of adrenalin and fear. These are the feelings I was trying to capture with increased grip.
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”Never before have I driven a mid-engined car that feels so well balanced, so comfortable, when its rear tyres are lit and you’ve got half an armful of corrective lock applied"
I find a lot of car reviewers judge a cars handling on its ability to slide and how it feels on that point which isnt really relavent to anyone unless your entering a drifting championship. The cars with the 110% grip dont slide around at all they just skip out suddenly, without the grip i could do those fun drifts the reviewers go nuts about all day lol
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I'd imagine that the lower the grip is the more manageable the slides are.
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I voted against even though i did not mind it,but as wally said the admin work it will be too much and plus yes, lets leave it the way it is i would feel like a group of "rebels" drifting apart lol ;D
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Here is a little article on what it is really like to drive LaFerrari . . . and they don't mention 'arcade like' once!!
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ferrari/laferrari (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ferrari/laferrari)
”Its responses may be massive, its grip vast and its performance envelope borderline insane, but it also feels surprisingly, well, normal in the way it drives.”
”Never before have I driven a mid-engined car that feels so well balanced, so comfortable, when its rear tyres are lit and you’ve got half an armful of corrective lock applied. In my head, in my world, you should not be able to drive a car like this, like that, but believe me; anyone who knows broadly what they are doing behind the wheel could do exactly the same thing in it after a while. And that’s purely because the car has been engineered to allow most people to be able to drive it hard, really hard, without scaring themselves.”
These kinds of feelings have never been captured by a sim - not just AC, any sim. You just end up spinning, sliding, understeering, oversteering. Maybe it's just impossible without G forces and a dash of equal parts of adrenalin and fear. These are the feelings I was trying to capture with increased grip.
I beg to differ, that's exactly how I felt with this car - read my earlier comments. It feels like it's driving itself.
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The one thing I'm getting from all these comments is everyone's feel is totally different.
So trying to create that seems impossible, as what's good for one is wrong for another. ???
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I suggest Wally to try a street car say the 1M on street tyres at Nords low temps overcast, slow track and street tyres. This less grip setting isnt very slippery at all and simply makes you drive slower in the corners, reducing grip will make the cars feel more like on a real trackday I think rather then increasing it. With more grip you have to push much harder to find the cars limits and it gets quite snappy at the grip limits, reduce the grip and as long as you slow enough for the corners it feels very natural to me more so then optimum grip.
You can use the same setup with the p1, even at regular optimum grip and hypercar trofeo tyres the thing is just nuts, very tricky to get around the track as cornering speeds are so high and losing the rear a little is more likely to snap away from you. Now do the same with lower grip around 95% which I think slow setting is, lower temps and Hypercar road tyres the car is much more driveble around the track. Cornering speeds are much lower and its more controllable in a slide. The laptime difference is more then 30 seconds for me but pushing the real car around there on slick tyres would take much bigger balls then with the less grip.
Then only real issue you will have with less grip is if you dont allow for this on braking and go deep into the corners where you will have trouble, but slow enough for each entry and hit the apex I could run around multiple laps withing a second depending on tyre wear. The main thing I noticed when running the 1m around the ring with the more realistic setup as Aris said is after 5 laps the brakes were still fine. WIth laptimes around 8:20 and 40 minutes of fairly quick running in any street car I would already have gone to the pits as the brakes most likely would be well cooked. ;) If Kunos ever simulates proper brake temps and fade then even more would hate the street cars when they realise 2 or 3 laps at Spa would pretty much cause brake fade in a good street car but some of the things people drive every day would be gone in 1 hotlap.
I remember losing the brakes on my old commodore at Sandown after only 2 laps, I could smell them burn early but pressed on and ended up in the sand at the end of t1 when it went to the floor and I needed to stop the car with gears only.
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The one thing I'm getting from all these comments is everyone's feel is totally different.
So trying to create that seems impossible, as what's good for one is wrong for another. ???
I agree with you big time,the amount of difference in our pc setup,the peripheral hardware etc etc makes impossible to find the"right" balance for everybody...so le it be guys!! ;D
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Here is a little article on what it is really like to drive LaFerrari . . . and they don't mention 'arcade like' once!!
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ferrari/laferrari (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ferrari/laferrari)
”Its responses may be massive, its grip vast and its performance envelope borderline insane, but it also feels surprisingly, well, normal in the way it drives.”
”Never before have I driven a mid-engined car that feels so well balanced, so comfortable, when its rear tyres are lit and you’ve got half an armful of corrective lock applied. In my head, in my world, you should not be able to drive a car like this, like that, but believe me; anyone who knows broadly what they are doing behind the wheel could do exactly the same thing in it after a while. And that’s purely because the car has been engineered to allow most people to be able to drive it hard, really hard, without scaring themselves.”
These kinds of feelings have never been captured by a sim - not just AC, any sim. You just end up spinning, sliding, understeering, oversteering. Maybe it's just impossible without G forces and a dash of equal parts of adrenalin and fear. These are the feelings I was trying to capture with increased grip.
I beg to differ, that's exactly how I felt with this car - read my earlier comments. It feels like it's driving itself.
So what you're saying is... the extra grip gave a real-life result :)The one thing I'm getting from all these comments is everyone's feel is totally different.
So trying to create that seems impossible, as what's good for one is wrong for another. ???
Agree!
I suggest Wally to try a street car say the 1M on street tyres at Nords low temps overcast, slow track and street tyres. This less grip setting isnt very slippery at all and simply makes you drive slower in the corners, reducing grip will make the cars feel more like on a real trackday I think rather then increasing it. With more grip you have to push much harder to find the cars limits and it gets quite snappy at the grip limits, reduce the grip and as long as you slow enough for the corners it feels very natural to me more so then optimum grip.
I'll be interested to try it.
The poll results are clear... we'll stick with the normal 95% -> 100% grip. Worth a try, now we move on.
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I beg to differ, that's exactly how I felt with this car - read my earlier comments. It feels like it's driving itself.
So what you're saying is... the extra grip gave a real-life result :)
Sadly, no, this comment of mine I'm referring to is dating back to my first run in the car.
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I tried street tyres, slow track (which is 95% grip, which we're all used to), lower ambient temp etc. Yes, I had to enter a lot of corners much slower to avoid massive understeer, but it didn't really feel vastly different to me.
But what really made a difference for me was to lower the tyre audio volume. Mine was set at 1, so it sounded like I was sliding in every corner, which contributed to the overall perception of being slippery. I turned the tyre volume down to 0.7, and with hearing less tyre squeal, the overall perception is of more grip. I also turned the strength of my FFB up just a tad.
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What slip value do you run? Zero?
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What slip value do you run? Zero?
Do you mean in the FFB settings? Not zero, some small value, from memory.
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What slip value do you run? Zero?
Do you mean in the FFB settings? Not zero, some small value, from memory.
Yes. In FFB settings. Wouldn't slip=0 remove the sliding feeling that AC adds?