Xtreme Gaming Network
Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on August 27, 2014, 03:14:31 PM
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So is there any chance these T1 smashes are going to get cleaned up, clearly myself and Freezer both got the rotten end last night, both launched into the stratosphere.
I'd like to clean it up. Half the point of joining a league is to get clean, fair racing. I'd like people to be able to have casual fun, but I'd also like people to be able to take it seriously. No one wants to put in hours of practice just to get punted off in T1. I might have to reinstate the old points penalty system. I could do it on protest only - i.e. you PM someone if you feel you've had your face unfairly ruined. Someone could review the replay, and then assign a point penalty. If you amass more than a certain number of points against you, you miss the next round - that kind of thing.
I probably don't have time to act as a "race steward" like this, especially if a protest comes days later. If people want to see this, do I have any volunteers to be a replay scrutineer for protests? I'd look for someone with lots of sim racing experience - someone who's seen every conceivable kind of crash and knows what's unavoidable and what's not.
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I'm always evil enough to help. Sorry I mean happy and helpful, that is.
We should ask for the replay, cut to size ~30s before the accident.
The prollem, however, is that currently it seems the replay isn't long enough to contain the 1st lap. mine certainly doesn't.
Another thought: it'd be good in cases like this to get multiple sides of the accident, because a bit of lag can change things dramatically. So I recommend everyone to save their replays religiously if we're going to judge based on replays.
Edit: and we need at least one more person; if the complaint is against me, my judgement may not be completely impartial :D
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I might have to reinstate the old points penalty system. I could do it on protest only - i.e. you PM someone if you feel you've had your face unfairly ruined
My face I mean race was unfairly ruined because Guybrush was too fast, this happened 8 times during the season. I have replays if needed and also you can see race lap times to go along with my official complaint. Maybe I will pass this on to bird our perfectly evil friend assuming nobody is messing with his karma again that is.
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I'm always evil enough to help. Sorry I mean happy and helpful, that is.
We should ask for the replay, cut to size ~30s before the accident.
The prollem, however, is that currently it seems the replay isn't long enough to contain the 1st lap. mine certainly doesn't.
Another thought: it'd be good in cases like this to get multiple sides of the accident, because a bit of lag can change things dramatically. So I recommend everyone to save their replays religiously if we're going to judge based on replays.
Edit: and we need at least one more person; if the complaint is against me, my judgement may not be completely impartial :D
I've been getting the entire race in a replay. Have you set your limit to 500MB? This changed in one of the recent updates. It's a bit hard to trim the replays, and people forget to keep them etc. I'd like to see one person, say Bird, be responsible for keeping the replay. You should be able to make a decision based on your replay alone. You'd get an independent, third person view of what any lag looked like. I could help out if there's a complaint against you. Let's let the idea stew for a while, see if anyone else has any ideas - in fact, I'll make another thread.
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Yes, the replay.ini says 500. Can you set it any larger?
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Yes, the replay.ini says 500. Can you set it any larger?
That's the limit, but my replay files end up being smaller than that, and include the entire race. Have you checked this recently?
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Yes, the replay.ini says 500. Can you set it any larger?
That's the limit, but my replay files end up being smaller than that, and include the entire race. Have you checked this recently?
yes, right now :)
And the 2nd nurbi replay is 505,809,791 bytes, so it's close but only 482MB, yet it's missing the first lap or so.
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Right. Well, for season 3, I'm thinking of 3 x 15 min sprints, so the replays will be shorter.
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sounds good.
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I don't want to put words into Freezer and Glen73 mouths but wasn't the point also that collisions in AC at present have too extreme consequences?
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I don't want to put words into Freezer and Glen73 mouths but wasn't the point also that collisions in AC at present have too extreme consequences?
That's just all the more reason for people to be careful and not divebomb T1.
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'Let it "stew"...' noice :)
tapatalk on an °[●●]°
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I think a lot of the crashes are due to warping, until the net code is updated not sure if there is anything we can do about it, last race even someone who had ~50ms ping did the occasional warp. However if there is found to be people not allowing others space, breaking too late repeatedly, etc, there should be some type of punishment. Everyone in our race series from what I can see does everything properly though.
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There was an old rule I used to use in a past league, it was simple and it worked.
No overtaking under brakes on the first corner of a race. It stops people trying to gain 3-5 places in one corner and the first corner is the best opportunity to do that in a race. It forces people to give racing room and it gives you some confidence that no one is going take advantage of you slowing down and doing the right thing.
But that league was far worse than this one, they really did believe the race was won on the first corner.
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A rule like that sounds like the way to go. No hero passes on the first corner. A clear pass would be on, but no big lunging bombs up the inside. Any t1 accidents caused could be harshly punished.
@G0rgak, yes there will always be some warping and/or lag, and that's excusable, but t1 mistakes can and always will happen without enough care being taken.
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Double penalty for t1l1 shunts.
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I can just look at turns 1 and 2 myself in the replays when I do the points actually. I just won't trawl through the entire replay obviously.
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I reckon having a small system in place helps people like myself not get so frustrated, but in saying that last night I was sleep deprived from the night before and I don't normally quit out like that. But the beauty of having a system in place pretty much sets the tone straight away with out enforcing it upon anyone.
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i think all we need is a penalty for causing turn one crashes. or even lap 1. keeps things simple and that's where all the carnage happens.
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I reckon some of the T1 accidents can be attributed to the braking point being something *else* rather than the normal one, thus people without specific "starting practice" may rely on the cars around to show them where to brake. (I'm guilty of this, sometimes, too) But also sometimes you get such a good start that you can gain a position or two - maybe even three - to T1, and that's a big gain.
A rule that says no overtaking under braking is great in theory, but a tricky one to police; where is the braking point? What if my car is much better under braking, etc...
Now, a "no overtaking till T1" rule, may solve our T1 issues, but won't it remove part of the racing? Namely most of the starting. Which will be even more interesting in cars with more power and less traction.
I know very well how annoying it is when someone removes half of the field (or even just you). It'd bad. Very bad.
But this happens towards the back/mid of the pack, 90% of the cases. This is due to the extreme slowdown of the train of cars, as it's always mentioned by Wally. So I reckon some alternative "solution" maybe needed, in fact praccy and heavy penalties might just do it.
I'm just putting my thoughts down, I cannot think of a solution that I'd say is good enough, yet.
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I think we don't need to do penalties or anything just yet. Everyone in the league are really trying to be as clean as possible and most of our starts are ok. However, when there is a slight misjudgment and someone is tapped from behind Assetto Corsa collision physics overreacts and ruins someone's race. We probably need to see if this improves in Friday's release. I know that when I have nudged or even just missed a car in front there is a severe rebound effect on the car in front that sends them into the car ahead of them and so on causing havoc that should not have happened.
If we can get some video of T1 posted after each race then that would be great. I, for one, would like to see if I did something wrong so I can learn for next time.
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In my experience, when there's room in T1, cars can go around side if they slow down a little and stick to their side of the track. As far as side-to-side goes, maybe that's a good rule: if you know (or even suspect) there's a car beside you in T1, stick to your side of the track. Don't go cutting back from the outside of the track looking for the apex. I've maintained this room plenty of times two wide into T1, both cars come out clean, one car has the speed, let them go.
And yes, further back into the pack, you cannot brake at your normal braking point. You have to move your braking distance back from the car in front of you, not the normal brake marker.
I'm leaning towards this now: I'll look at the first corner or two of every race, looking for incidents (assuming the replay goes back far enough), because that won't take long at all. Any other incidents, driver can lodge a protest with Glen or Bird, and they can look at it.
I think a T1 incident should attract more points penalty than other incidents, because there's that much more potential to take half the field out.
It'll be something like, for T1, -4 pts for the hitter, +4 pts for who got hit. Later in the race, -2/+2 pts. You're still expected to redress.
The second time you cause a T1 incident, you miss the next round.
If a driver accumulates more than 10 penalty points against them, they miss a round.
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I think we don't need to do penalties or anything just yet. Everyone in the league are really trying to be as clean as possible and most of our starts are ok. However, when there is a slight misjudgment and someone is tapped from behind Assetto Corsa collision physics overreacts and ruins someone's race. We probably need to see if this improves in Friday's release. I know that when I have nudged or even just missed a car in front there is a severe rebound effect on the car in front that sends them into the car ahead of them and so on causing havoc that should not have happened.
If we can get some video of T1 posted after each race then that would be great. I, for one, would like to see if I did something wrong so I can learn for next time.
Crash physics or not, you shouldn't be hitting anyone in the first place, especially at T1. It's part of league racing, in my book, to enforce clean racing without wrecking someone else's race, and without getting too heavy-handed about it. It'll make it a better experience for everyone.
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It'll be something like, for T1, -4 pts for the hitter, +4 pts for who got hit. Later in the race, -2/+2 pts. You're still expected to redress.
The second time you cause a T1 incident, you miss the next round.
If a driver accumulates more than 10 penalty points against them, they miss a round.
I agree but would change one penalty.
It'll be something like, for T1, -4 pts for the hitter, +4 pts for who got hit. Later in the race, -2/+2 pts. You're still expected to redress.
The second time you cause a T1 incident, you miss Qualifying and start from back of grid for next entire round.
If a driver accumulates more than 10 penalty points against them, they miss a round.
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I think Glen's suggestion for penalties sounds fairer. You need a system, but I don't want to exclude people from racing.
As for my take on Race 1, T1. I could have been lag! I dont have the replay but from the drivers seat, someones car actually came through mine with the resulting major impact sending my flying through the air. Happy to see a replay if anyone wants to post it.
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The problem with Glen's idea is that I can't enforce it on the server. It would have to be a voluntary thing that you don't put in any qualifying laps if you're under penalty. I suppose that's doable. A downside is that if someone who normally qualifies near the back end causes a T1 ruckus a couple of times, it's not much of a penalty. But OK, it's worth a try, in the spirit of not being too heavy-handed.
We could get Marty deliberately being a T1 wrecker because we know how he likes working his way through the field.
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Reckon it was me that sent Freezer/Glen off into the stratosphere on T1... :-[
but I'm claiming innocence here... I didn't save the replay (always bloody forget) but I was behind him coming up to the corner... he had a good distance in front of me then warped back and then he shot off with Glen to the sky... I didn't even feel my wheel shake...
Someone has to have a replay to see this... :'(
I am incredibly conscious of the T1 of all tracks and definitely don't do the gung-ho dive in or push...
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I'm sure that often, it is these weird lag jumps of the car. Does anyone have a race 1 reply to upload? Even trimmed to the first lap?
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Wally I think if your a believer in the league then you will voluntarily serve your penalty, as you say it's a light penalty for someone that maybe already racing at the back but it's more the name and shame that is the real penalty.
And here is video to back up what Rolz is saying, Freezer does warp in front of him so in my book it's play on. I wish I had of known this on the night.
[youtube]34iqXyZxvXA[/youtube]
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I reckon you're right Glen.
Yeah, that's a perfect example of these stupid lag warps. T1 is not the time nor place for that to happen! I wonder if that's even worth posting up in the AC forums somewhere as an example of this warping. Those size jumps are pretty crappy. NKP was a lot smoother than that.
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Wally I think if your a believer in the league then you will voluntarilyserve your penalty, as you say it's a light penalty for someone that maybe already racing at the back but it's more the name and shame that is the real penalty.
And here is video to back up what Rolz is saying, Freezer does warp in front of him so in my book it's play on. I wish I had of known this on the night.
[youtube]34iqXyZxvXA[/youtube]
I think we could blame Rob. Notice he logs into Assetto Corsa just as freezer warps...
Makes sense.
I'm still thinking 'shit happens' I can understand the reason for being annoyed. But for me, I don't want to see anyone penalized for any reason. Maybe for deliberate wrecking. But that's the point. No one does it deliberately.
Last week I had practiced Monza for hours and hours. Didn't even complete the 1st lap and my race was over. Sure what a Bummer. But meh. Gotta take it on the chin. That's racing.
I don't want to have to tip toe around people cause I'm afraid they will rage or I'm going to be penalized. I'm already over cautious at any turn in with a group.
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We used penalties in the netKar league. It didn't really become a donwer for anyone, it just made people a little more careful. Everyone knows shit still happens, and it's often excusable. We'll give it a go, and you'll see that it's not as bad as it sounds. The whole point is to make just a little more at stake, so you're a little more careful. It doesn't mean that every time you touch another car, wham, there's a penalty. Only if there's a blatant lack of care being taken, like coming into the corner much too fast and not taking into account the speeds of the cars in frontm that kind of thing. I've always made big allowances for reduced visibility of cars around you, warping etc.
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Interesting in the replay that only Freezer seems to be warping, what connection do u have, are other people on it, is it wireless, do u have windows auto updates disabled? Is it a one off or have people noticed it often?
Not blaming u of course, things happen, but just trying to identify what may have caused it, and to other people who have issues of lag just to have a look at these factors which greatly affect online gaming performance, thanks.
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Wow from the back it was quite a bit of a warp... When I race I make sure all other apps are closed... too many times I've had outlook or something else flip screens for a sec and I loose control... have to hit alt-enter to get controls back... usually on a PB lap of course!! ;D
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I'd recommend everyone check their "Q" in the bottom left of screen when racing online. I find people warp lots when this is low, so more of a user issue than a server or game issue. It would be good if somehow there was no warping even with packet losses though.
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Interesting in the replay that only Freezer seems to be warping, what connection do u have, are other people on it, is it wireless, do u have windows auto updates disabled? Is it a one off or have people noticed it often?
Not blaming u of course, things happen, but just trying to identify what may have caused it, and to other people who have issues of lag just to have a look at these factors which greatly affect online gaming performance, thanks.
It often doesn't necessarily seem to be ping related either. It could just come down to being alpha code still.
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I reckon you're right Glen.
Yeah, that's a perfect example of these stupid lag warps. T1 is not the time nor place for that to happen! I wonder if that's even worth posting up in the AC forums somewhere as an example of this warping. Those size jumps are pretty crappy. NKP was a lot smoother than that.
I'd definitely post it and raise it as an issue. If there's that much lag from someone, then their car should become a ghost for a while, IMO.
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This random warping has been more of an issue since the last major update, lets hope its fixed in the next update. Still there can be random internet spikes as something may be auto downloading in the background even if you think everything is off. Could just be the NSA tapping in to watch the race start as they must be bored silly reading peoples tweats and facebook updates all day.
Penalties are a good thing and just lets people know there is a consequence to bad driving. Penalties are only given for bad driving not regular racing incidents. I dont try to make a move unless I think I can do it without contact and will rather wreck myself then take someone else out if thats my last resort.
Still I have had some contact over the season though not really much my own fault as at times people just dont see you or you get involved in someone elses incidents. One was my fault as I spun at mugello and ended up ruining Rob's race as he hit me before I could get started again. Still amazing how it didnt take out half the field as Bird amd Wally missed my spinning cars by a beezdick or two.
You should fear penalties if making silly moves as the trick to good racing is making good moves and waiting for a chance to get by cleanly and fairly. Not just divebombing into the first half chance you get, I remember getting frustrated at Silverstone as I couldnt get past freezer for what seemed like half a race even though I was a few seconds a lap faster on my own.
Was good fun trying to find a way past a car running a very different low aero setup which just had too much speed on me down the straights. Even though I could get him on entry and mid corner to exit hed pull away down the straights enough so I couldnt clear him easily. I think I did actually hit him at one point into the last chicane now that I think of it but let him go again and continued the chase.
I could have won some more races if I punted guy in the first turn as thats abiut the only tikes I was close enough to hit him. ;D
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How about this warp back at Blackwood.
This is me driving. It happens very quick. in the 1st 4 seconds. I was a good 20-40 meters behind..
The car that warps actually then warps back and pulls away no drama. I continue to spin and take out another car. Meh..
[youtube]YGIfuz8zcgs[/youtube]
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How about this warp back at Blackwood.
This is me driving. It happens very quick. in the 1st 4 seconds. I was a good 20-40 meters behind..
The car that warps actually then warps back and pulls away no drama. I continue to spin and take out another car. Meh..
[youtube]YGIfuz8zcgs[/youtube]
I was going to say the Nurburging incident looked a lot like a documentary I saw on yt, showing the mating ritual of or was it in a Dick Forrest.
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Could just be the NSA tapping in to watch the race start as they must be bored silly reading peoples tweats and facebook updates all day.
lol
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Could just be the NSA tapping in to watch the race start as they must be bored silly reading peoples tweats and facebook updates all day.
lol
I think we established during the week Marty's pubic server is a direct link to the NSA and Gratulin is a NSA plant as his ping is below 20.
now that we have said NSA more than 3 times this site is now being watched..
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Could just be the NSA tapping in to watch the race start as they must be bored silly reading peoples tweats and facebook updates all day.
lol
I think we established during the week Marty's pubic server is a direct link to the NSA and Gratulin is a NSA plant as his ping is below 20.
now that we have said NSA more than 3 times this site is now being watched..
They are investigating your skins for hidden messages!
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Could just be the NSA tapping in to watch the race start as they must be bored silly reading peoples tweats and facebook updates all day.
lol
I think we established during the week Marty's pubic server is a direct link to the NSA and Gratulin is a NSA plant as his ping is below 20.
now that we have said NSA more than 3 times this site is now being watched..
They are investigating your skins for hidden messages!
Only the NSA are dumb enough to need to investigate for hidden messages on those skins.
Everyone else can see the message very clearly, its a metaphorical opening of the closet doors and someone proudly stepping out. ;)