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Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on July 12, 2016, 10:18:31 PM
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RACE RESULTS, CHARTS AND RIVALS (http://xgnassettocorsa.blogspot.com/2016/07/s12r5-ferrari-312t-vs-lotus-72d-at.html)
Round Points
| Name | Qual | Race 1 | Race 2 | Total |
| Matthew111 | 9 | 40 | 40 | 89 |
| Marty | 10 | 34 | 38 | 84 |
| Mael | 5 | 36 | 36 | 77 |
| Wally | 6 | 32 | 32 | 70 |
| Freezer | 7 | 28 | 34 | 69 |
| Doobs | 4 | 30 | 30 | 64 |
| Rob | 1 | 26 | 28 | 55 |
| Vipergod | 3 | 24 | 24 | 51 |
| Joe | 2 | 22 | 26 | 50 |
| Phil.8 | 8 | 38 | 0 | 46 |
Congratulations to Matthew on the two race wins and the overall round win.
Season Podium
1. Marty, 361
2. Matthew111, 340
3. Phil.8, 282
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Sorry for the bump at start of race 2 Wally. Lit up the rear tires and was too slow to catch it. Otherwise I was really happy with the nights racing with solid results even though my pace was a bit off. The last three laps of race 2 was a bit slow after I toasted my gearbox and engine with a small lapse of concentration.
Thanks for the season Wally!
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First, my race report:
In race 1, I got away reasonably well. Sorry Freezer on lap 1, I was a bit loose on one corner, with the low grip and tyres not up to pressure, where I was just trying to hold on to it. A few laps in, Freezer had the tow down the straight, and dived on the inside, but couldn’t pull it up under brakes, on top of which I turned in a bit, so I got a hit to the side which put me off the track for a moment but let Mael sneak past as well.
From there, I had a really good chase with Mael and Freezer. The three of us pitted together, and came out together. Then Marty joined the fun and picked his way through us with some clean passes over several laps. It was really excellent close racing.
At the start of race 2, I got a good start, but Mael overcooked his rears off the line and veered sideways into me, causing me to put two wheels on the grass which robbed me of some pace and cost me a couple of places. Race 2 had a lot more errors in it – I managed to pull a pass on Rob, but then couldn’t pull up and went off into the gravel. I worked my way past Rob again after he ran a little wide, and eventually caught up to Freezer. After he had a loose moment, I overtook him on the middle straight section, and was on the racing line, my rear wheels in line with his front wheels at my turn in point. I continued on my line, but Freezer dived on the inside and hit my rear wheel, turning me around. I don’t think I was closing the door – because I was on the racing line and in front of Freezer, I was entitled to the corner and Freezer wasn’t able to pull up on the inside. Had he been level with me at my turn in point, I would have had to concede the corner.
After my pit stop, I had a good chase of Doobs. I just managed to pass Doobs after he got a bit loose, but then I put the power down too hard with my wheel on a kerb and spun off the track, giving the spot back. I was able to pass Doobs and Rob again after they each made little mistakes.
The car felt really good – I was getting in a nice rhythm with it – and overall the racing was excellent.
Thanks for the season Wally!
Don't pop the champagne yet - there's one more round!
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Thanks for the season Wally!
Don't pop the champagne yet - there's one more round!
:-[ Could have sworn this was the last one! Checked and the next one is Imola were I'm going to get so many cut penalties at the chicane that this could just as well have been my last one LOL
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Good to be back. Last in both races which was kind of expected. Not the easiest cars to come back to after a long break!
R1 wasn't too bad. Viper went off then I went off too on lap 3 and spent the rest of the time chasing him. Kept him in sight and stayed on the track. Late pitstop as wasn't sure where the pit entry was, and came out 8 seconds behind Viper. Narrowed that down to 5 seconds, then saw him get his 10 second penalty. Just needed to stay on track, gave my self a little mental high five on lap 16 for staying on and only having 2 warnings and in doing so spun off.
R2 after Viper left I was on my own the whole time so got a little dull with nothing to really aim for and came off a few times. On lap 16 my wife came in and asked me to do something, and when I looked over at her I went straight into a wall and pretty much wrecked the car. I left after that :D
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Good nights racing despite the small field. Had some pretty close competition between Mael, Wally, Doobs and Joe.
R1 I had a late braking scare into T1. Thinking I was going to hit Wally I pulled inside and managed to stop it albeit wide which forced Wally out a bit. Other than that pretty clean.
As for our race 2 incident Wally, watching the video from my car I was half way down the inside of you, not locking up, when you swept across taking off my nose. I couldn't stop any quicker and held the turn as tight as possible so not sure where else I could go. I would think racing room was the issue here?
Anyhow it was good night. :)
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Was some fun racing tonight, race 1 I had a terrible getaway and ended up behind Matthew. I tried to suss him out the first few laps to see where I was gaining and I had nothing. The main pass point here was the main straight but Matthew had that exit down pretty sweet out of the last corner most laps giving me nothing.
We ended up entering the pits together. He braked early before the pitlane line and caught me out I slamed the brakes but I ended up inside his car lol. There was no collisions, I did go for absolute min fuel to get home and so had the quicker stop but exitng was some unsafe release by at least one of oyr teams ;) and I ended up getting rear ended.
This did bad damage to my rear wing and I lost most downforce, Matthew passed me on t2 as I was just battling to make it around the corner. Then into the next corner braking early it locked up the rears and I went straight off. Knowing this was never going to make it home I needed to stop again for repairs.
I came out about 6th and then just went as hard as I could with not much left to lose. Catching Wally and freezer it was a real good battle trying to pass them both. Good fun and we were real close but a couple clean passes. Next up was Mael but I ran out of laps.
Race 2 I got a much better start and had the lead to t1, I forgot to move my brake bias to the rear a couple clicks as heavy I was locking fronts. So I had a big brain berp and locked up into 1 having to let a few past before I coud re enter. Unfortunatly Phil had his blackout and Freezer went wide so I only had to pass Mael down the main straight.
From there I just had to chase Matthew down, he had some good pace and so the 2 and a bit second lead took about 6 laps or so to get to within stricking range. As I didnt make a pass on him race 1 I tried the undercut, put in an ok outlap but he still beat me to t1 just slightly as he exited next lap.
From there I just pushed as hard as I could pretty much overdriving the thing and sliding it all over the place. Was no other choice as Matthew was properly on the pace. With a couple to go I went full attack mode to try make a move.
Last lap we were very close and I got side by side on the back straight. Stuck on the outside again I just tried to hang on around there to be inside for the next right hander. We were both on the gas hard and with lots of wheel spin came together a little but no real harm done and just a racing incident.
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Good nights racing despite the small field. Had some pretty close competition between Mael, Wally, Doobs and Joe.
R1 I had a late braking scare into T1. Thinking I was going to hit Wally I pulled inside and managed to stop it albeit wide which forced Wally out a bit. Other than that pretty clean.
As for our race 2 incident Wally, watching the video from my car I was half way down the inside of you, not locking up, when you swept across taking off my nose. I couldn't stop any quicker and held the turn as tight as possible so not sure where else I could go. I would think racing room was the issue here?
Anyhow it was good night. :)
It's an interesting one - I was reading these CAMS guidelines the other day, and this incident is a good example of the situation it's addressing:
(http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w549/WallyMasterson/Capture_zpsqplyjfvy.png)
I reckon because I was in front of you at my usual turn in point, I had the corner. Had you been further up when I started to turn in, I would have had to yeild to you and give you the corner.
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Well I had my nose up to your steering wheel (maybe not my front wheels though) but definately under control.
As for Bailing Out, as soon as I saw you swinging in from out wide I stomped on the anchors but there was no time!!
Its a fine line . . . :)
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Well I had my nose up to your steering wheel (maybe not my front wheels though) but definately under control.
As for Bailing Out, as soon as I saw you swinging in from out wide I stomped on the anchors but there was no time!!
Its a fine line . . . :)
We need Marty to do a video :)
I was already turning in by that point. I just find these cases interesting to discuss, that's all. The racing was excellent.
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I made a video last nite just the wrong one. ;)
This is the last 7 laps of race 2 from my failed undercut to trying to drive in dirty air and find a way past. My car was rather loose as pushing hard was blistering left rear for me but I needed to keep the pressure on and try to find a way past. Seems yt compression butchered the quality a bit so I will stick to 30p videos next time too. :-[
The screen shows our wheel to wheel contact on the last lap. That one I just see as a racing incident but can post that up for analysis too. We were side by side and my rears spun up with my nose turning towards him and looks like he may also have spun rears and gone right as his car was going into mine.
https://youtu.be/omx1F0skBqc
I will do an overhead video of the Wally Freezer incident later too, interesting to see how it is and how people can see it. That cams rule I dont like as its a bit too open for people cutting others off. Its very hard to be certain that the other car hasnt come far enough up, the other guy may think he has and so both will assume they have their rights to the corner.
My personal rule is I will give room to anyone with overlap and if I choose to defend I will do it early down the inside to take away a dive bomb. Just because I give room doesnt mean I give up the spot they still have to earn it. But like the v8 rule of needing to leave racing room to any car with overlap I think encourages cleaner racing with less contact.
If your borderline overlapped you cant assume you will get racing room always but at that point the attacking driver can back out still. Looking at that screen Freezer is already committed and so if the outside car goes for the apex the only thing that can happen is contact. Under that cams rule outside car can be in the right but thats why I think that rule is not a very good one.
Also in my general racing thinking is if the outside car leaves room and the inside cant hold the apex, runs deep and hits the outside car they are at fault. With the leave racing room method it works both ways so cars should technically be able to go side by side at any section of track without being run off the road. Still if someone doesnt hold their line especially inside locks a brake this usually ends in contact. I consider a dive bomb any time someone makes an inside pass byt cant hold the inside line forcing the outside car of his line to avoid contact if he has left racing room inside.
I just think thats a better way with margin left to avoid contact rather then having a fixed overlap point and if both think they are at this point it will just end in contact.
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Well I had my nose up to your steering wheel (maybe not my front wheels though) but definately under control.
As for Bailing Out, as soon as I saw you swinging in from out wide I stomped on the anchors but there was no time!!
Its a fine line . . . :)
We need Marty to do a video :)
I was already turning in by that point. I just find these cases interesting to discuss, that's all. The racing was excellent.
I think it comes down to which rule applies.
Cams Rule: I'm in the wrong, although I had never heard of the steering wheel line before.
Supercar Rule: I'm in the right. There was overlap, helicorsa was lit up.
Divebomb: I was under control and not likely to run wide. I actually ran it it because I saw wally locking it up out wide on entry and thought he might run a bit deep.
Lucky there are no sheep stations at stake :) :)
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It was race 2, maybe lap 4 or 5, I think, Marty. A video would be great.
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Made some videos of the incidents. Not sure if all will be up yet so it could be a while before they get to yt and are processed to a reasonable quality.
Here is Wally and Freezer. If I was to call it then it would entirely depend on the rules being used but its very grey all round. Freezer was well back at brake point, Wally has a big lockup and so leaves a big gap then turns into a very late apex. Freezer tried to stop but he had nowhere to go, I would likely have had the same fate as Freezer there as after the lockup I would assume the apex will be available. Under the Cams rule technically then Wally is possibly in the clear but I do see people quite often doing the big late apex leaving a gap for a bus on entry only to then still go for the apex when a car is there. The inside car has nowhere to go so I think your always better off to leave at least 1 car width inside. Wally could still have easily held the position with more speed on the outside as Freezer needed to brake very hard not to run wide and into Wally but with the big door close and committed not much he could do.
https://youtu.be/XyDwkACzIqU
Here is Matthew and me last lap same corner, this one looks so different from every angle lol. Id say we were both out of control on exit and just happened to get into eachother. Matthew has tried to ensure he leaves room outside turning in with more lock but then the car gets loose so he needs to correct and the car snapped the other way. At about the same time my car has also lost the rear and started to get loose and towards his so we both end up at the same piece of road. I think had I not lost the rear and held the outside line and if Matthew had have driven into me he would have been at fault and also possibly had Matthew not lost it at the apex and held the line leaving enough room outside and I snapped into him then I would be at fault.
Being the last lap and both out of control just prior to impact I would call it a racing incident but wonder what others think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_mJ8IhHGo
Here is the pitlane incidents. This one is a very strange one as I think on the exit I have done nothing wrong but also the damage I received makes no sense ruining my rear wing when contact was nowhere near it. ;) On entry however Matthew having not driven into the pits yet braked at the wrong line and this caught me completely by surprise. I locked up but ended up inside his car as luckily collisions were off in this section, at this point I figured no point backing off so we just rolled down the lane in this friendly formation. If collisions were enabled here and we made contact I wonder if I would be at fault for contact, the rear car is responsible but you dont expect the car ahead to brake 100m before the pit lane limit. Then turning into pit bays if collisions were on I would again likely have caught the edge of Matthews car as I drove slightly through his pitbay on the way to mine. This would have been my fault but as there are no collisions its a non issue.
Now the pit exit, I think its fairly clear I am not at fault here but after the mess on entry and driving through each other Matthew may not have realized collisions were on there already. My pit box was the last though so as soon as I crossed collisions are re enabled as long as you dont exit inside another car. End result did cost me another pit stop but being such an awkward series of incidents it would be hard to give a penalty there. Not that id want to in any way as it was some great racing and hopefully more next round at Imola.
https://youtu.be/M8laWqirNBo
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Not sure if you want input from someone who hasn't raced the season but here goes. ::)
Wally Vs Freezer.
Tough one. IRL Freezer would prob get the penalty but I have always disagreed with this as I believe the driver on the outside looking into the corner has much better vision but usually the penalty goes to the guy on the inside there.
I think the 2nd is straight forward. Mathew gets the penalty in incident 2 and the pitlane incidents it's nearly always the car behind that's going to cop the penalty.
Just my 2c worth..... ::) ;)
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Interesting vids. Personally if I know another car has any part of their car alongside, or even if I think they might, I give room. Part of that is down to my lack of experience and fear of taking us both out. I've probably let people past when I could have held my own.
Wally vs Freezer seems like it's down to whatever rulebook you want to abide by.
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Great videos Marty. Thanks for the effort. I still maintain in my case, I had passed Freezer, I was in front, and on the racing line, and the onus is always on the overtaking car to make it safely. I don't think Freezer was far enough alongside me to claim the corner. If he had been further up, I would have conceded the corner.
In contrast, I had another pass put on me by Marty where he was clearly alongside me on the inside, and I conceded the corner.
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Big turn around from spa lol car was a lot better and probably the most comfortable i have been with it all season, this car doesnt seem to click with me lol
race 1 Got a good jump and got in front of marty and the whole first stint had him on my tail but i could control the race with track position, so i tried to drive the car nice and straight not leaning on the tyres to get the most out of it until the pitstops not knowing for sure exactly how far i could go so i let marty close in in the last sector of lap 9 to see if he would pit and if he did i would follow him through lol this nearly cost me the lead as he nearly was able to slip stream me down the straight. Pitted lap 10 with marty wasnt sure where the pit line was so i braked a bit early as i didnt want the car spinning into the wall when the limiter engaged and you can see what happened in the vid lol we were inside each other and exited inside each other but i didnt realise the pit boxes were right on the pit lane exit so this time it was contact but it was so slight from my view im surprised it did any damage. So from there i cruised home for a win.
race 2: Didnt jump marty off the line this time but was gifted the lead when he went wide at t1 so seeing he was a bit further back i tried to build a gap early but felt i hurt the tyres to much in doing so and the car was a bit taily all first stint and towards the end of it i had marty on my rear again but this time i knew when i wanted to pit and i was confident the undercut wouldn't work if i did a clean lap and it paid off coming out in the lead after the stops. This stint i decided to play like the first stint of race 1 and not lean on the tyre early and just manage marty behind me and it worked well as the car felt great all stint and I had a car i could push with on the last few laps which i knew i would have too lol. Got to the last lap and i got a slight bit of front end push in the middle of turn 5 which delayed my throttle by a fraction but enough to give marty a run through the next couple of turns and eventually the move you see in the vids, i tried to just hold the inside line leaving marty the outside on exit to stop a undercut or if he did try and stay around the outside ill be on the inside for the next turn, in the end trying to keep so tight around the turn caused the car to flick the rear out at the same time marty oversteered on exit and we just touched i actually thought it was side to side contact but looks like it was pretty marginal and if either one of us didnt slide there wouldnt of been contact at all, we only touched because we both slid at the same time to the same point lol but you could see prior to contact my line was the middle on exit leaving the outside room and it was the tap that puts me back on the racing line, all good in the end was a great finish to a good pressure race :)
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Matthew and Marty, both cars were giving space, but the key is that Matthew lost control. The car that loses control will nearly always be the one at fault.
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both lost control hence angling into each other
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both lost control hence angling into each other
I agree we both lost control quite funny we both lost it in opposite directions coming together at the same point of track. Had either of us held their line and the other not slid towards them then I think the only one who lost control would be at fault. In that situation we both managed to do the only thing possible to cause contact while both were doing our best to leave room so I would call that a 50/50. The pit exit I dont think I was at fault but just got pretty shafted to get red rear wing damage from such a minor tap well below the wing. Collisions like that should maybe damage suspension or give a puncture but a low front wing is not likely to damage such a high rear wing in such contact.
I picked the video preview shot on purpose as its before the contact and you can see both cars pointing towards eachother, we should both have been pointing straight down the road by that point and actually I was aiming for the exit curb so its quite a big loose on my part too.
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humble and probably personal opinion:
Freezer vs. Wally: I'd give it a racing incident, but if I had to find one a bit more at fault that would be Wally. I say this because although Freezer's attempt is not too clean, at turn in he has the inside line and I think he can hold it throughout living all the needed space to Wally. When Wally decides to take the apex it is too late: there is no way Freezer can avoid collision. If I had the impression Freezer could not hold the inner curb himself I would say he could be at fault, but it seems to me he could complete the entire corner leaving all the space needed on the outside for Wally, who at that point is---in my opinion---bound to take it.
Matthew vs. Marty: I was going to give racing incident throughout, but after reflecting a bit I decided that "losing it" is never a full excuse. So there is no moral fault here, and no harsh penalty would ever be deserved, but I'd vote for something like 5sec. penalty for Matthew. I know you say marty loses it too, but it is Matthew that de facto changes his line from the inside one to the outside one. Marty loses it a bit, but mostly follows the angle of the track. It is unfortunate, but in the facts (that is: disregarding that we know Matthew clearly did not meant to), they are at that point on a new straightaway, and Matthew cuts it in diagonal when Marty is alongside.
Pitlane: it's such a mess with unclear pit limit line and ghost cars... no idea.
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Great videos Marty. Thanks for the effort. I still maintain in my case, I had passed Freezer, I was in front, and on the racing line, and the onus is always on the overtaking car to make it safely. I don't think Freezer was far enough alongside me to claim the corner. If he had been further up, I would have conceded the corner.
In contrast, I had another pass put on me by Marty where he was clearly alongside me on the inside, and I conceded the corner.
Well I am going to maintain my case also then . . :)
I've always used Helicorsa in that as soon as someone gets alongside and it lights up I will then take the corner wider knowing that we can probably go side by side rather than ignoring them, sweeping in and likely getting tagged. Its as much self preservation as anything and has worked pretty well. I did think the racing room option was the preferred way!
and p.s. thanks Marty also.
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humble and probably personal opinion:
Freezer vs. Wally: I'd give it a racing incident, but if I had to find one a bit more at fault that would be Wally. I say this because although Freezer's attempt is not too clean, at turn in he has the inside line and I think he can hold it throughout living all the needed space to Wally. When Wally decides to take the apex it is too late: there is no way Freezer can avoid collision. If I had the impression Freezer could not hold the inner curb himself I would say he could be at fault, but it seems to me he could complete the entire corner leaving all the space needed on the outside for Wally, who at that point is---in my opinion---bound to take it.
Matthew vs. Marty: I was going to give racing incident throughout, but after reflecting a bit I decided that "losing it" is never a full excuse. So there is no moral fault here, and no harsh penalty would ever be deserved, but I'd vote for something like 5sec. penalty for Matthew. I know you say marty loses it too, but it is Matthew that de facto changes his line from the inside one to the outside one. Marty loses it a bit, but mostly follows the angle of the track. It is unfortunate, but in the facts (that is: disregarding that we know Matthew clearly did not meant to), they are at that point on a new straightaway, and Matthew cuts it in diagonal when Marty is alongside.
Pitlane: it's such a mess with unclear pit limit line and ghost cars... no idea.
LOL well the only reason I went to the outside is because I was tapped there, otherwise I would of been in the middle of the track and as Marty said if he didn't slide he would of been on the outside.
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Great videos Marty. Thanks for the effort. I still maintain in my case, I had passed Freezer, I was in front, and on the racing line, and the onus is always on the overtaking car to make it safely. I don't think Freezer was far enough alongside me to claim the corner. If he had been further up, I would have conceded the corner.
In contrast, I had another pass put on me by Marty where he was clearly alongside me on the inside, and I conceded the corner.
Well I am going to maintain my case also then . . :)
I've always used Helicorsa in that as soon as someone gets alongside and it lights up I will then take the corner wider knowing that we can probably go side by side rather than ignoring them, sweeping in and likely getting tagged. Its as much self preservation as anything and has worked pretty well. I did think the racing room option was the preferred way!
and p.s. thanks Marty also.
I confess I've been using an older version of Helicorsa which doesn't do this whole overlap lighting up thing. I've installed the latest version now.
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Wally v Freezer, not sure who is who but to me it didn't appear the car on the inside was far enough up along side the other car at turn in. I think a general rule of thumb is around half way along side at turn in.
Marty v Matthew, again I don't know who is who but it seemed the car on the outside didn't follow the normal racing line due to spinning up the rears. I think the car on the inside is entitled to at least believe the other car should follow the racing line and provide enough space.
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Greetings GB. Marty wants you back. He's winning too often.