Xtreme Gaming Network
Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on September 04, 2016, 04:57:56 PM
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Marty has a server up at Brands Hatch to compare lap times for the Ferrari GT2, BMW GT2 and Corvette C7R. This will be ONE OF the options for next season, not THE option (there will be the usual poll at the end of the current season). I want to work out some ballasts to even up the cars for this option, like we've done with the Japanese cars. Jump on the server and post some times in each of the cars - we're only running Medium tyres to compare lap times.
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Stracker data can be seen here for the server. Server is set at optimal and fixed conditions on mediun tyres only to gwt a good idea of what times people can manage in each car. There hasnt been much running in the ferrari yet but seems the corvette is a little quicker then the bmw.
Its also good to have a few guys try all the cars to see if most find the performance difference the same between all. Once there is enough data at a few tracks we will test some ballast to get an idea of what would be needed to balance the field if we ever run these in the future.
http://52.65.162.16:50041/lapstat?currservers=acserver3
Its set to MR AB only but as with all my servers the guys on the xgn whitelist can get in even if they dont have a rating yet.
I will go through the list of future server options and put some of those combos up for people to have a test in them.
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Having ran some laps in all 3 cars, the C7 is fairly clearly in a class of its own. Way more stable and higher top speed. The Ferrari and BMW seem fairly close though. C7 is about .7 per lap faster here then the other 2 which also need more setup work to be more driveable and quicker. C7 just small change in gearing, lowered and more front aero with less at the rear. The BMW likely could do high 1:24 too but its much less stable at least with my setup from entry through to exit. C7 feels like it has a bit left in it with 1:24.3 but overall I think it would just need enough ballast to take about .7 off at this track to level things up.
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Having ran some laps in all 3 cars, the C7 is fairly clearly in a class of its own. Way more stable and higher top speed. The Ferrari and BMW seem fairly close though. C7 is about .7 per lap faster here then the other 2 which also need more setup work to be more driveable and quicker. C7 just small change in gearing, lowered and more front aero with less at the rear. The BMW likely could do high 1:24 too but its much less stable at least with my setup from entry through to exit. C7 feels like it has a bit left in it with 1:24.3 but overall I think it would just need enough ballast to take about .7 off at this track to level things up.
Although I see Gratulin was much quicker in the Ferrari than the other two. We'll still have to gather more comparative times from more people.
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It also depends how many laps and how much practice each driver has in each car. I popped in for a quick few laps in the C7 but if I put my mind to it I'm sure there's probably another half second at least.
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Yeah my findings also from my quick run at imola a week ago, c7 was so much quicker i think it was 1.5 over the bmw
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The Ferrari was the last car I tried so maybe getting better? But I found it the easiest to drive fast - to it's limits. The C7 was next but I think I wasn't really pushing as much. It feels like you're driving in a lounge chair - not bad handling just very calm. The BMW was real twitchy and difficult but fun.
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Number of laps and then setting cars up would have an effect, default setup wise the c7 felt best of the 3. BMW I tried most things and most of them didnt work as I hoped. Thats the one I felt I was least comfortable with but get a better setup and more laps then probably at least .5 in each of the cars.
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I've averaged the times for all the cars on the Brands Hatch server (83 driver/car combos, excluding the very slowest outlier times), and so far it looks like this:
1. Corvette - 86.9 secs
2. Ferrari - 87.7 (+0.8)
3. BMW - 88.0 (+1.1)
Althoooouuughhhhh.... when you look at people who have used multiple cars (which is not many, admittedly), people are mostly slowest in the BMW, but some are fastest in the Corvette, and some are fastest in the Ferrari. What that probably indicates is that both the Corvette and the Ferrari need the same small amount of ballast, just to bring them back to the BMW a little.
It would be good if people could set some times in different cars.
Here are the laps so far: http://52.65.162.16:50041/lapstat?currservers=acserver3&page=0
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Looking at the overall fastest laps though c7 clearly is the fastest, over the weekend I will try get the most out of each of the cars. I spent a bit of time in the BMW as it has the worst default setup of the lot. Looking at actual fast laps even though overall average is faster in the ferrari over BMW the top few fastest laps are considerably faster in the BMW then the Ferrari. Most of my laps in the beamer were racing from the back of the field so not getting anywhere near its actual potential where I should be able to match my best time in the c7 and looking at my delta during good laps this seemed to be the case.
The C7 I ran the least amount of laps and barely touched setup as its fairly quick as is, but pushing it a bit more I think at least another .5 in that. Maybe it doesnt have so much more but probably at least another .5 or so in it and the only car I think could relatively easily go under 1:24
The Ferrari there is only 2 times below 1:26 and I think nowhere near the c7 but actually quite close to the BMW, again a bit more time in it and mid to low 24's should be quite possible but I cant see it being much quicker then the BMW.
Neither of the other 2 will I think ever be that close to the c7 but potentially I don't think there is that much time in the beamer and ferrari. Looking at total laps in the 3 cars the ferrari seems most popular. 458 laps atm vs 353 in the other 2.
http://52.65.162.16:50041/lapstat?track=ks_brands_hatch-gp&cars=bmw_m3_gt2,ks_corvette_c7r,ferrari_458_gt2&valid=1,2&date_from=&date_to=&currservers=acserver3&ranking=2
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I hope to find some time to give a little contribution to this study this weekend. But I also wanted to ask: do you think Brands Hatch is a representative track?
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Don't forget guys like Cherno and Guybrush have only done laps in the Corvette, so it can look misleading to see a lot of C7R near the top. And there is the fact that for a few guys, they were faster in the Ferrari.
All I want to avoid with ballast is the situation where no one drives a particular car because it's too slow, not necessarily to even them up to the nearest tenth, because everyone drives different cars differently, as the times show. At the moment, it's looking like the BMW might be a bit unattractive, and it might turn into a 2 make race.
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I hope to find some time to give a little contribution to this study this weekend. But I also wanted to ask: do you think Brands Hatch is a representative track?
I think so. No really long straights like Silverstone, Mugello or even Imola, not too tight like a Magione or a Vallelunga, with a good mix of corner radiuses.
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I hope to find some time to give a little contribution to this study this weekend. But I also wanted to ask: do you think Brands Hatch is a representative track?
I think so. No really long straights like Silverstone, Mugello or even Imola, not too tight like a Magione or a Vallelunga, with a good mix of corner radiuses.
I am sure you know better. I would have thought tracks like Vallelunga or Catalunya would have been more representative, as they have a mix of straights, fast and medium corners, and tight sections where stability over curbs and traction off slow corners matters. At Brands Hatch you need a good diff lock setup out of t4 and aero balance on the sequence of medium speed corners, but I thought raw power and traction counted less. But then again: my understanding of these things is really bad, so you are probably right.
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I regard Vallelunga as pretty tight, with those very slow corners. Catalunya is probably a good track too. There's no right or wrong; every track is different. We'll probably mix it up with another track like we did with the Jap Pack ballast testing.
And don't forget, this is all just to prepare for one of the next season's options. We may not even use it.
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Thank you. It was just a curiosity of mine. :)
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Here are my times Wally.
I did 12m with default set in each car, then went back and did 12m with higher aero and gear adjustments.
1. Corvette - 86.9 secs
2. BMW - 87.5
3. Ferrari - 87.9
and
F138 @ Singapore
109.4 secs
;)
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I'll get some laps in over the weekend. Footy tonight so no racing for me... ;D
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Thanks chaps.
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Don't forget guys like Cherno and Guybrush have only done laps in the Corvette, so it can look misleading to see a lot of C7R near the top. And there is the fact that for a few guys, they were faster in the Ferrari.
All I want to avoid with ballast is the situation where no one drives a particular car because it's too slow, not necessarily to even them up to the nearest tenth, because everyone drives different cars differently, as the times show. At the moment, it's looking like the BMW might be a bit unattractive, and it might turn into a 2 make race.
Id think ballast should mostly just make it so that if one of the quicker guys for example choose the c7 then without ballast nobody will match them in anything else. This would make it basically a one car race, with a bit more testing we should see a regular pattern going but I will keep this at Brands at least til the end of this weekend. Then maybe pick a faster track like Barcelona moto or GP. Moto is probably a better indicator for which tracks are good on faster flowing circuits with the gp track last chicane often balancing the cars out a bit. It means a car also needs to be good in low speed corners and in the moto there aren't any real slow corners at this track
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If one of the quicker guys chose a Corvette or a Ferrari, no one would catch them regardless. The Corvette is not automatically the best choice for everyone. If you're faster in the Ferrari, you'd choose that. It's just looking so far like not many would be compelled to choose the Beemer, so that needs a little incentive, such as not having ballast.
But we'll do some testing at Barcelona Moto too.
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Looking at the laptimes only 2 of the top 10 times are not in the corvette, of those both times are mine with the beamer just ahead of the 458. ;)
The top 20 times atm, maybe your looking at a different list. ::)
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/0409/21yfn2ywf588a256g.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/view/?21yfn2ywf588a25)
The corvette is the only car many can get under 1:26 the BMW has 3 times under this and the 458 only 2. The 458 still has the most laps in the server yet overall is the slowest of the 3.
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7e7e/idvgxkx6id3qn0n6g.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/view/?idvgxkx6id3qn0n)
I dont see how any of the quicker guys choosing a ferrari would made them the fastest when the data is not showing this car fastest by any stretch atm. Maybe I am reading it wrong and need to turn the screen upside down. ;D
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The corvette is the only car many can get under 1:26
Sounds like a challenge!
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A lot of those top guys have only set times in the Corvette though, that's the thing.
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A lot of those top guys have only set times in the Corvette though, that's the thing.
That's why I did equal amounts in each car. ;)
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To be honest, I just jumped on for a bit of a fun run as there were a few on the server. I weren't really testing anything.
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Crunching some more numbers in a different way (because I love thinking about this stuff): I looked at people who had driven more than one car, and averaged the differences in times between each car they drove (if they had done enough laps in each car). The numbers so far show this:
C7R vs M3: C7R is 1.1 secs faster (8 gaps compared)
C7R vs 458: C7R is 0.2 sec faster (6 gaps compared)
458 vs M3: M3 is 0.8 secs faster (10 gaps compared)
To me, that looks like the C7R needs a little more ballast than the 458, but not much more.
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I ran a few more laps in each, though far from ultimate laps in each car. Overall they are really much closer then I expected.
C7R 1:24.162
458 1:24.414
BMW 1:24.562
Still after quite a few were in the server nobody else is really finding pace in the 458 or M3 like many are finding in the c7.
Here are the current top 25 times.
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/ecad/3zq3ebuza1gv9sx6g.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/view/?3zq3ebuza1gv9sx)
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Don't get fooled by the C7 times, as a lot of those drivers at the top of the list haven't driven anything else. Here's the list with only people who've driven more than one car:
| 1. | Marty | Corvette C7R | 01:24.162 |
| 4. | Marty | 458 GT2 | 01:24.414 |
| 7. | Marty | M3 GT2 | 01:24.563 |
| 9. | jk .VR. | Corvette C7R | 01:25.178 |
| 12. | Mael | Corvette C7R | 01:25.313 |
| 17. | gratulin | Corvette C7R | 01:25.581 |
| 21. | jk .VR. | M3 GT2 | 01:26.003 |
| 22. | General Stoner | 458 GT2 | 01:26.006 |
| 24. | Mael | M3 GT2 | 01:26.043 |
| 26. | Mr Wobbler | 458 GT2 | 01:26.111 |
| 29. | XGN Wally Masterson | 458 GT2 | 01:26.255 |
| 30. | gratulin | 458 GT2 | 01:26.340 |
| 36. | Glenn Frost | Corvette C7R | 01:26.674 |
| 38. | XGN Wally Masterson | Corvette C7R | 01:26.825 |
| 39. | Bacchulum | Corvette C7R | 01:26.957 |
| 43. | gratulin | M3 GT2 | 01:27.191 |
| 44. | Mr Wobbler | Corvette C7R | 01:27.244 |
| 51. | Bacchulum | M3 GT2 | 01:27.561 |
| 53. | XGN Wally Masterson | M3 GT2 | 01:27.604 |
| 54. | Glenn Frost | 458 GT2 | 01:27.622 |
| 57. | Glenn Frost | M3 GT2 | 01:27.846 |
| 58. | Bacchulum | 458 GT2 | 01:27.995 |
| 59. | General Stoner | M3 GT2 | 01:28.001 |
| 62. | bbhrt | 458 GT2 | 01:28.055 |
| 63. | Nicklas Brown | M3 GT2 | 01:28.075 |
| 64. | bbhrt | M3 GT2 | 01:28.258 |
| 69. | Nicklas Brown | 458 GT2 | 01:28.744 |
| 71. | Zico | 458 GT2 | 01:28.839 |
| 72. | Gro0kie | 458 GT2 | 01:28.981 |
| 73. | Zico | M3 GT2 | 01:29.181 |
| 81. | Mr Wobbler | M3 GT2 | 01:30.139 |
| 87. | Gro0kie | Corvette C7R | 01:32.680 |
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maybe its the default setups, when i did my quick test a few weeks a go the cars were stock and yeah the c7 was way quicker
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Here's my 2c...
18. insomniac Ferrari 458 GT2 01:26.913 +02.751 00:27.043 00:23.523 00:36.347 yes
21. insomniac BMW M3 GT2 01:27.457 +03.295 00:27.561 00:23.645 00:36.251 yes
25. insomniac Chevrolet Corvette C7R 01:27.662 +03.500 00:27.282 00:23.639 00:36.741 yes
All on default setups. I find the M3 the easiest and most stable to drive, followed by the C7 and then the 458 but the 458 is the most fun and the quickest around brands hatch for me anyway.
I like to race the escort around brands hatch on the ftw server, so know the track fairly well, on a more unknown track the times could be different but I'm confident around here. With setup tweaking I'm sure there's heaps of time in there.
I like grat don't see BH as a decent gt2 track representing good racing, I think Silverstone, Mugella, Imola etc are better suited to represent and race in these cars.
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maybe its the default setups, when i did my quick test a few weeks a go the cars were stock and yeah the c7 was way quicker
I think its fairly pointless to test using default setups, if we do a gt season then one of the main points of gt cars is the ability to set them up. If it was to be a fixed default setup you may as well run basic street cars. ;)
The c7 on default probably needs the least amount of work, the 458 is ok on default but feels fairly horrible until you pretty much change everything. The BMW on default is a long way off the pace but also you really need to push quite hard to get any reasonable pace out of it. Once you push and tweak the setup a little its probably my favorite of the 3. The c7 is a bit lifeless and a bit too stable, the 458 quite a pig to get to turn but its all that can be dialed with some setup tweaks.
The way I see them just based on a single track so far the c7 needs about .5 of ballast the other 2 really are pretty close, maybe a faster track the ferrari will get a bit quicker but here there is hardly anything between the 2.
Looking at laptimes though it seems most are only getting closer to the limits in the c7, I did put my setups for the 458 and m3 in ptracker so people can try those and see if it helps them get any more out of it. Brands is also quite a technical track where line can be worth 1 to 2 seconds alone in any car.
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If any XGNers are bored, do more than 5 laps here in a car you haven't raced yet, to enable a comparison of how the cars compare for each individual.
The following guys have only set laps in 1 car:
-XGN- Guybrush Threepwood, Corvette
StanDaam, Corvette
Rolz, BMW
Grat, Ferrari
Phil.8, BMW
Ley Ying Lo, Ferrari
Ben, BMW
Joe Stevens, Ferrari
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Hi,
I did my fair bit of testing. Perhaps strangely, I was fastest in the BMW...
Ferrari: default was driveable but not great. Marty's setup seems to have very strange brake balance. I did my best to try to set it up, but always ended up with something potentially fast, but twitchy like hell. (PS: Marty, I found your setup much better with 66% or more BB instead of 63%)
C7: I did not like it and did not work much on setup, so I think my laps are not so meaningful.
BMW: Marty's setup is really sweet here. Enjoyed and set an almost competitive lap.
All in all, it seems like we might ballast as much as we wish, but the ability (and time) to find a setup that suits you would be really key in a GT2 season.
EDIT: Times (laps):
BMW 1:25.394 (11)
Corvette 1:25.623 (8 )
Ferrari 1:25.988 (19)
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Brake bias I adjust in car so what is saved may not be what I use, but 66 would flat spot my inside front pretty quick I think. I also regularly use for example 63.5 but for some odd reason you can only do .5 adjustments in car.
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maybe its the default setups, when i did my quick test a few weeks a go the cars were stock and yeah the c7 was way quicker
I think its fairly pointless to test using default setups, if we do a gt season then one of the main points of gt cars is the ability to set them up. If it was to be a fixed default setup you may as well run basic street cars. ;)
The c7 on default probably needs the least amount of work, the 458 is ok on default but feels fairly horrible until you pretty much change everything. The BMW on default is a long way off the pace but also you really need to push quite hard to get any reasonable pace out of it. Once you push and tweak the setup a little its probably my favorite of the 3. The c7 is a bit lifeless and a bit too stable, the 458 quite a pig to get to turn but its all that can be dialed with some setup tweaks.
The way I see them just based on a single track so far the c7 needs about .5 of ballast the other 2 really are pretty close, maybe a faster track the ferrari will get a bit quicker but here there is hardly anything between the 2.
Looking at laptimes though it seems most are only getting closer to the limits in the c7, I did put my setups for the 458 and m3 in ptracker so people can try those and see if it helps them get any more out of it. Brands is also quite a technical track where line can be worth 1 to 2 seconds alone in any car.
So far, I am seeing this in a spread sheet, when I look at the average differences between times for people who have:
- driven more than 1 car
- done more than 5 laps
- discarding the biggest "outlier" time difference
Corvette 0.1 secs faster than Ferrari (some people are faster in the Corvette, some in the Ferrari)
Corvette 0.8 secs faster than BMW (everyone is faster in the Corvette)
Ferrari 0.7 secs faster than BMW (some people are faster in the Ferrari, some in the BMW)
They are the facts, that is what people are actually doing, no could be/should bes or guesses. You have to look at the average picture, to be fair across the whole group. Not everyone is fast, not everyone drives the cars the same, not everyone will tweak the setup to the nth degree.
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Hi,
I did my fair bit of testing. Perhaps strangely, I was fastest in the BMW...
Ferrari: default was driveable but not great. Marty's setup seems to have very strange brake balance. I did my best to try to set it up, but always ended up with something potentially fast, but twitchy like hell. (PS: Marty, I found your setup much better with 66% or more BB instead of 63%)
C7: I did not like it and did not work much on setup, so I think my laps are not so meaningful.
BMW: Marty's setup is really sweet here. Enjoyed and set an almost competitive lap.
All in all, it seems like we might ballast as much as we wish, but the ability (and time) to find a setup that suits you would be really key in a GT2 season.
EDIT: Times (laps):
BMW 1:25.394 (11)
Corvette 1:25.623 (8 )
Ferrari 1:25.988 (19)
Great, I'll plug them into my spread sheet in a bit. Congratulations on being the first person faster in the BMW than the Corvette!
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I just checked and its surprising that the 458 is clearly the most popular.
458 726 laps
C7R 569 laps
M3 566 laps
Of that in the top 20 laps
13 C7R
5 M3
2 458
Take out my laps in the 458 and BMW
fastest 458 19th 1.422 off the fastest lap
M3 14th 1.228 off the fastest lap
If the 458 was actually quicker then the m3, then considering it has had the most laps by a fair margin I would expect it to be better then 19th fastest. 4 People other then me are also faster then the best other 458 lap and 11 others in the c7. To me thats a fairly clear picture and I thought the main reason for ballast in cars is for parity between the 3 to make ultimate pace very close. If we want ballast to be driver based then I think thats a very different thing to just leveling out the 3 cars.
The one thing Im seeing is those that seem to struggle to get the most out of the cars seem to prefer the 458, maybe this feels better to them but to me it feels horrible as its quite an under steering pig. People that prefer understeer seem to favor the 458 then, understeer is also the slow was around any track so this would explain why those fastest in the 458 tend to also be slower overall. ;)
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Like I said earlier, all I want to achieve is that no car is so unattractive and off the pace that no one would choose it, in which case you might as well not include it.
Maybe another way to look at it is just this, based on the laps we have for people who've set times in more than one car:
- Corvette vs Ferrari - 4 are faster in the Corvette, 2 are faster in the Ferrari
- Corvette vs BMW - 8 are faster in the Corvette, 1 is faster in the BMW
- Ferrari vs BMW - 6 are faster in the Ferrari, 3 are faster in the BMW
Maybe that's not so bad. Maybe some people would still choose the BMW, even if we had no ballast. Another way of forcing the mix up is to mandate a half-time car swap again, so if say the Corvette clearly dominates, it won't dominate the entire season.
Let's switch the server over to Barcelona Moto, and see how the cars stack up there.
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I will switch the server to Barcelona tomorrow let people get in the last few laps tonight if they want to. The mid season car swap thing makes it interesting and that way you could go ballast free but it still looks like the c7 with about .4 to .5 per lap ballast would even out all 3 fairly well.
The thing with the car swap is those that seem to really not gel with the other cars but do seem to prefer one much more. Forcing them to switch may end up hurting them more but if after testing we find some ballast is needed then it should be so that anyone that gets the most out of any particular car they choose shouldn't be disadvantaged vs the others. Some may not get much out of all 3 and so for obvious reasons would pick one over the others. At Brands at least its not likely youd be miles off in any of the 3 if you were able to get the most out of it.
If the cars have some ballast just to even out the max potential in each then people can freely pick any they like the most and have as good a chance as anyone else in any other car. Sure there will always be differences between each person but for basic BOP I still think it should be mostly based on ultimate pace rather then the average person and what they can get out of it. Sure the majority wouldnt necessarily pick one car maybe the beamer.
But the funny thing I have noticed in the server is if you set a time considerably quicker then what others are setting in a different car. Many leave and come back in the car setting the fastest time. This doesnt mean they will also be faster as not everyone can get the most out of all cars. These 3 all handle fairly different so some will favour one style over the other. The guys that can both set cars up and or adjust to how a car wants to be driven can likely get some good pace out of all 3.
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I've run a handful of laps in each car now - around 10 in each.
They all seem pretty similar, the beamer a bit slower but more stable.
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I've run a handful of laps in each car now - around 10 in each.
They all seem pretty similar, the beamer a bit slower but more stable.
Well seems you have made all 3 within .083 but c7 would surely have another .5 in it if you gave it another run.
What do you guys think of testing them at VIR next, the big mod is fresh off the press.
(http://www.dbits.co.uk/FRC/release%20header.jpg)
I will put some hypers on there now but can move these to either there next or to Barcelona Moto.
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Yes yes yes yes to VIR
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Thanks for your times GB.
VIR looks interesting, but let's stick with Barcelona Moto for this test as we'll get more people on the server with a KS track rather than a mod track.
By making the Corvette 0.65 secs slower and the Ferrari 0.3 seconds slower at Brands, it pretty much balances out the number of people faster in one car than the other e.g. comparing the Corvette and the BMW (or any pair of cars), half the people would be faster in the Corvette and half would be faster in the BMW. It maximises the car balance across the whole range of skill levels (at the fast end, the cars are pretty close, but at the slower end, with less skill to drive each car fast, the Corvette clearly leads over the BMW).
e.g. 3 people are faster in the Corvette, 4 people are faster in the Ferrari
5 people are faster in the Corvette, 4 people are faster in the BMW
4 people are faster in the Ferrari, 5 people are faster in the BMW
So Marty can you please put up the server with [/size]Barcelona Moto, with 85 kg on the Corvette and 35 kg on the Ferrari.
[/size]
[/size]The goal of this exercise is not to equalise the cars (because everyone drives them differently, with a lot of variability, and the spread in times for each person varies a lot) but to balance out the number of people who are faster in one car over the other, over the whole field. Everyone will be able to choose a car that suits them, and there won't be too many "obvious" or one-sided choices.
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So Marty can you please put up the server with [/size]Barcelona Moto, with 85 kg on the Corvette and 35 kg on the Ferrari.
[/size]
[/size]The goal of this exercise is not to equalise the cars (because everyone drives them differently, with a lot of variability, and the spread in times for each person varies a lot) but to balance out the number of people who are faster in one car over the other, over the whole field. Everyone will be able to choose a car that suits them, and there won't be too many "obvious" or one-sided choices.
Are we meant to read the fine print. :)
when quoting I can decipher your code, so will put that up now at Barcelona moto.
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marty are your sets on the server?
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So Marty can you please put up the server with [/size]Barcelona Moto, with 85 kg on the Corvette and 35 kg on the Ferrari.
[/size]
[/size]The goal of this exercise is not to equalise the cars (because everyone drives them differently, with a lot of variability, and the spread in times for each person varies a lot) but to balance out the number of people who are faster in one car over the other, over the whole field. Everyone will be able to choose a car that suits them, and there won't be too many "obvious" or one-sided choices.
Are we meant to read the fine print. :)
when quoting I can decipher your code, so will put that up now at Barcelona moto.
LOL, I don't know why it does that size malarkey sometimes. Thanks, Marty.
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marty are your sets on the server?
Yea I put all sets on the server, just ran a few laps in each at Barcelona and other then mostly gears didnt need to do much to the Brands setups. The Ferrari feels much better at Barcelona then it did at Brands Hatch and even with the ballast I was quickest.
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Seems those ballasts have just turned the field around, now C7 is clearly slowest but m3 and 458 are close. 458 I think maybe 10kg less and c7 40kg less should even things out.
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Seems those ballasts have just turned the field around, now C7 is clearly slowest but m3 and 458 are close. 458 I think maybe 10kg less and c7 40kg less should even things out.
Give it time. Let's get a broad set of numbers then refine. For you guys who were fairly even in the three cars, you'd expect the C7 to be slower now, with most ballast. For those lower down the rankings, it might even up the C7 and the Beemer more.
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Haven't done the beemer yet. Hard to judge in race when there are ****heads around on whether the C7 or the Ferrari were quickest for me. Had a few beers now so maybe good time to get on..... ;D ;D :P
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I dont see many choosing the c7 as its clearly slower here. Nobody really set good laps in it but the quickest guys also didn't run it, I will try and set actual times in the beamer and 458 as I learned the track a bit better by the end in the c7 laps. I only ran a few in the 458 and never put a lap together in the beamer so in those mid 43's I should be able to do 3 or 4 tenths off Guys times. But in the c7 I don't see it getting any closer yet before it was generally the quickest now its the slowest by about the same margin it was fastest by at brands. Halve the ballast in it and I think it would be real close with all 3.
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I guess I need more practice in the 458, C7's were passing me easily. :'(
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Haven't done the beemer yet. Hard to judge in race when there are ****heads around on whether the C7 or the Ferrari were quickest for me. Had a few beers now so maybe good time to get on..... ;D ;D :P
I didnt think it was so bad, really not much worse then it would be in a league season with the same cars. I started quite a few races at the back and got through a lot of those clean. Some I got caught up in others incidents but its the general race start mentality of the average guys thats the issue.
With the better drivers its not an issue but some just get a bit more racey then their ability allows, this means they regularly end up hitting others. Its good practice just getting through lap 1 from the back but overall I think it wont get much better in a pub server with 20 or so others in it.
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I guess I need more practice in the 458, C7's were passing me easily. :'(
c7 is quick down the straight and main reason it still needs ballast, but in laptimes itself its a bit off the pace. Possibly 50kg would help but getting the run down the straight and a draft makes it quite easy to pass anything you can hang on to up to that point. I adjusted qualy to 15 minutes now in the server.
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I will add a second server with these at VIR and my adjusted views on the ballast, the bareclona server will stay up for a while too. But VIR is fun and should get a few in it with GT2 cars.
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Yeah, leave Barcelona up for a while to get lots of laps at a range of skill levels. Just set times in each car, it's all data to refine the ballasts.
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Yeah, leave Barcelona up for a while to get lots of laps at a range of skill levels. Just set times in each car, it's all data to refine the ballasts.
Will keep that there for the week maybe, would be nice if GB posted his 458 setup. I just hate that car and took my setup down as it was so crappy.
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Yeah, leave Barcelona up for a while to get lots of laps at a range of skill levels. Just set times in each car, it's all data to refine the ballasts.
Will keep that there for the week maybe, would be nice if GB posted his 458 setup. I just hate that car and took my setup down as it was so crappy.
I did not mind your setup (that's what I was running). But it felt strange. I wish I could give you a better feedback... sorry. It felt a bit light on the wheel. Maybe the front is too hard? It really wanted me to slow down quite a bit to get the car into the corner.
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The 458 I dont really get as its quite understeer on entry no matter what I do, I pretty much did throw everything at it. Also using dashmeter pro for shift lights trying to sort custom rpm range is a nuisance. Every other car gets picked up automatically but that one doesnt, I dont understand why it simply doesnt have rpm limiter adjustable low enough to actually make the limiter just past max usable rpm.
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So far I'm way quicker in the Beemer than the other two and did less laps. That was on Marty's slightly tweaked set.
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29. Bacchulum BMW M3 GT2 01:46.653
50. Bacchulum Ferrari 458 GT2 01:47.786
56. Bacchulum Chevrolet Corvette C7R 01:48.285
Lotus 25 @ Monza Full
2:48.151
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29. Bacchulum BMW M3 GT2 01:46.653
50. Bacchulum Ferrari 458 GT2 01:47.786
56. Bacchulum Chevrolet Corvette C7R 01:48.285
Lotus 25 @ Monza Full
2:48.151
You can drive the Lotus 25 in a GT season if you want :)
Thanks for the times. I see a lowering of ballast on the cards...
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Isnt it easier just to got to the server link, its the same one as last tests at Brands Hatch. http://52.65.162.16:50041/lapstat?track=ks_barcelona-layout_moto&cars=bmw_m3_gt2,ks_corvette_c7r,ferrari_458_gt2&valid=1,2&date_from=&date_to=&currservers=acserver3
You can change track to Brands hatch and get that data too quite easily. ;)
Seems just the c7 is most out here as its gone from clearly quickest to marginally slowest, the other 2 not miles off but but as I suspected with that ballast the BMW would go from the general weakest link to the strongest. Anyone setting good times in one of the cars may also want to upload their setup in the server so others can give it a try. In these cars setup is fairly critical and if you have a bad one it simply will not be as quick as it could be.
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You can drive the Lotus 25 in a GT season if you want :)
And don't forget, this is all just to prepare for one of the next season's options. We may not even use it.
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Isnt it easier just to got to the server link, its the same one as last tests at Brands Hatch. http://52.65.162.16:50041/lapstat?track=ks_barcelona-layout_moto&cars=bmw_m3_gt2,ks_corvette_c7r,ferrari_458_gt2&valid=1,2&date_from=&date_to=&currservers=acserver3
You can change track to Brands hatch and get that data too quite easily. ;)
Seems just the c7 is most out here as its gone from clearly quickest to marginally slowest, the other 2 not miles off but but as I suspected with that ballast the BMW would go from the general weakest link to the strongest. Anyone setting good times in one of the cars may also want to upload their setup in the server so others can give it a try. In these cars setup is fairly critical and if you have a bad one it simply will not be as quick as it could be.
Yeah, I just cut and paste all of the data from the website into a spreadsheet and run some formulas over it to do counts, averages and what not.
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The question is, do we count the setup difficulty of a car as part of its inherent pace? ie. with the right setup a car might be x seconds faster, but if you can't find the right setup for each track then it will be a lot slower and the performance disparity between that car and the rest will be greater.
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The question is, do we count the setup difficulty of a car as part of its inherent pace? ie. with the right setup a car might be x seconds faster, but if you can't find the right setup for each track then it will be a lot slower and the performance disparity between that car and the rest will be greater.
Now you're firmly in the too hard basket. There's so much variability between drivers, and to a lesser degree tracks, that you can only get BOP somewhere in the ballpark.
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The question is, do we count the setup difficulty of a car as part of its inherent pace? ie. with the right setup a car might be x seconds faster, but if you can't find the right setup for each track then it will be a lot slower and the performance disparity between that car and the rest will be greater.
Now you're firmly in the too hard basket. There's so much variability between drivers, and to a lesser degree tracks, that you can only get BOP somewhere in the ballpark.
Yeah, I was more so talking about posting setups for these cars while we are trying to determine performance difference.
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Ballast should really be set regarding what the ultimate pace is in all cars, people then just choose whichever car they want at the level they are at. If you struggle in a car then you wont pick it but ballast shouldnt be set based on default setups where it gives one a big advantage over any others if they can find much more pace out of it I think.
With setups once you find a reasonable base setup it doesnt take much to adapt to most tracks, but any car that people are struggling to setup is not likely the one they would choose.
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Ballast should really be set regarding what the ultimate pace is in all cars, people then just choose whichever car they want at the level they are at. If you struggle in a car then you wont pick it but ballast shouldnt be set based on default setups where it gives one a big advantage over any others if they can find much more pace out of it I think.
With setups once you find a reasonable base setup it doesnt take much to adapt to most tracks, but any car that people are struggling to setup is not likely the one they would choose.
Like I said before, it's all about making sure that all cars are likely to get picked. If nearly everyone finds the Beemer too slow for example, for whatever reason, then hardly anyone will choose the Beemer. It's not just about the ultimate pace of the car. It's about "pickability", to avoid a two horse race.
Nothing is based on default setups either. There's no restriction at all on how you set your car up in these tests.
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Does it really matter about the likelihood of people picking one car or not. I think the key to BOP is that no one car has a clear advantage so people can pick whichever car they feel comfortable with knowing they arent at a big disadvantage.
If 1 car ends up with a clear advantage and another with a clear disadvantage then this will effect things quite a bit in which cars people choose.
Most will pick the car they like as long as its not completely uncompetitive against the rest. There is no set limit in how many of each car must be picked and best to keep this open. If that means everyone picks one car then thats how it is but if ballast is set where no one car is too fast or too slow its unlikely most will pick one or avoid another.
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Fair points, Marty. I'll still see how this week's testing pans out. I haven't looked at the laps yet, but anectodatlly it looks like the ballast will reduce from Brands. A little bit of ballast will still be a good thing if in general it brings the field a bit closer. You can already see that there is a big spread in lap times, and that means a spread out field and more potential for races turning into hotlapping sessions, especially with longer GT style races.
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I can't get the 458 to handle Barcelona or any other track from brands hatch. No amount of setup fiddling gets good results.
I'm still learning the track at moto and am finding it particularly challenging in the 458. Haven't tried the c7 but the m3 felt much easier to drive even on default setup. Best lap so far offline with a crappy setup and without ballast is a 1.45.45 in the Ferrari, with heaps of area to improve on.
Around VIR the 458 was shocking using my Barcelona setup and even default.
I think people are going to choose the car they like to drive and comes naturedly for them, no matter if it's theoretically 4 tenths faster or slower than another for the aliens. People have different styles and suit different cars better, also not everyone sets their car up to the max potential so I don't see the point in ballast for cars as close as these.
The rx7 is a clear exception being so much faster than the others nearly everywhere and this has the shed load of ballast to keep it even.
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Bmw and 458 arent too far apart and dont really need ballast IMHO, maybe 10 to 15kg max in the ferrari but its just the c7 that is in another class GTE vs the 2 gt2 cars actually. ;) GTE is an evolution from the old gt2 class but seems to have a bit less drag and some more power so that really needs ballast or its too quick. Thats really the main issue with the 3 cars.
Even the 35kg isnt enough ballast to have a big impact on handling in the 458. No ballast the c7 was clearly dominant for a big number of drivers, with 85kg its put it a little behind the other 2. Not as far behind as it was ahead at brands but maybe around 50kg there it should be close to the other 2.
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So are we using these cars next season ? seems to be a lot of effort going into them if not, personally I hope we are not, had a quick go on the server on Sunday night and found them boring and left after 5 mins
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The 458 feels nice to me but I can't get it to go any quicker. The Beemer I think has a fair bit left in it for me and the C7 I am just not getting the feel of.
For me, I'm going to select the car that I feel I'll make the least mistakes in so long as it's not an absolute slug. I'd rather be 3s a lap off than losing 30s every time I go off.
Different driving styles also mean that someone else's setup may not work for another. I am using Marty's Beemer set but still had to tweak the tyre pressures slightly according to the setup engineer. I tried his C7 setup and couldn't get around the track. Sometimes the aliens sets work a treat for me and other times I'm better with my own.
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So are we using these cars next season ? seems to be a lot of effort going into them if not, personally I hope we are not, had a quick go on the server on Sunday night and found them boring and left after 5 mins
Looking at the poll atm its between this and the f138, now that car is a proper setup beast. I will put a server with them up somewhere tonight, I think MR A and xgn only as those are terrible in lower level pub servers.
Anyone have an idea of a track they should be run at?
With the gt2 and setups in general, I always like to do my own and can rarely drive Guybrushs setups very well. But the option to share setup is good if soneone is really lost they can give another a try and maybe just see if anything there works better for them and they can work off it or add it to theirs.
No one setup will ever work for everyone and in AC there is more then one way to skin the cat. I just try make something that gives me confidence to push and if its off the pace a but will need to take away some stability for a bit more pace.
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I like to do my own setups also, and it does take time.
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I like to take either Phil or Marty's setups. It takes no time.
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So are we using these cars next season ? seems to be a lot of effort going into them if not, personally I hope we are not, had a quick go on the server on Sunday night and found them boring and left after 5 mins
It will be one option in a poll for some kind of GT style season. As you can see, it takes time to work out reasonable ballasts, or if ballasts are even required. I'm just being prepared, with the current season drawing to an end.
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So are we using these cars next season ? seems to be a lot of effort going into them if not, personally I hope we are not, had a quick go on the server on Sunday night and found them boring and left after 5 mins
I think it takes some time to warm up to them, especially at Barcelona. Id love to see them at mugello or imola, somewhere more familiar for most people.
I like to take either Phil or Marty's setups. It takes no time.
LOL I wish I could drive other people setups well, but I like to make my own and build of others sets if they feel better than my own.
Building these takes ages and more often I'm going backwards from the default, so I only change a few things at once to dial it in and sometimes make a small change and the result is huge when on the track.
I haven't got enough time to make setups for all 3 cars and I've mainly concentrated on the Ferrari as it felt great at brands, but it feels like poo at Barcelona, especially with ballast even that little bit makes it understeer too much and need massive suspension changes that make it unstable for me.
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setup question on the ferrari based on trying Marty's setup last weekend:
Does car engineering app work well? The springs seem to be way over-dumped, like 2.5 or stuff like that. Is the app wrong?
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So are we using these cars next season ? seems to be a lot of effort going into them if not, personally I hope we are not, had a quick go on the server on Sunday night and found them boring and left after 5 mins
It will be one option in a poll for some kind of GT style season. As you can see, it takes time to work out reasonable ballasts, or if ballasts are even required. I'm just being prepared, with the current season drawing to an end.
not that I am biased, but you could just have a ballast system that equated directly to seasons points :)
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It can't be biased, I think the same...... ;D ;)
I'd even be happy to go on age....over 60, no ballast..under 60, 200kg..... :P
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So are we using these cars next season ? seems to be a lot of effort going into them if not, personally I hope we are not, had a quick go on the server on Sunday night and found them boring and left after 5 mins
It will be one option in a poll for some kind of GT style season. As you can see, it takes time to work out reasonable ballasts, or if ballasts are even required. I'm just being prepared, with the current season drawing to an end.
not that I am biased, but you could just have a ballast system that equated directly to seasons points :)
I have been thinking exactly that for Thursdays
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It can't be biased, I think the same...... ;D ;)
I'd even be happy to go on age....over 60, no ballast..under 60, 200kg..... :P
I think statistically as people get older they get heavier so this should work the same way, or we could all weigh ourselves and report the reading to wally then get ballasted on how many burgers each has consumed. ;)
Im sure everyone will somehow claim to weigh less then the average jockey. ;D
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not that I am biased, but you could just have a ballast system that equated directly to seasons points :)
That's basically just a success ballast. I think we've done that already in some season past, where positions 1 to 10 just got a set amount of decreasing ballast.
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Yeah, we did ballast in the FR3.5 - I quite liked it but the only issue was that it seems after a certain weight, time lost almost squares with ballast added. It's not a linear penalty.
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Yeah, we did ballast in the FR3.5 - I quite liked it but the only issue was that it seems after a certain weight, time lost almost squares with ballast added. It's not a linear penalty.
Yep. And it was lap-times based, not position based...
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Yeah, we did ballast in the FR3.5 - I quite liked it but the only issue was that it seems after a certain weight, time lost almost squares with ballast added. It's not a linear penalty.
Yep. And it was lap-times based, not position based...
Season 8 was the Lotus GTC/GX season with success ballast, with the top 10 getting: 75kgs – 66kgs – 57kgs – 48kgs – 39kgs – 33kgs – 27kgs – 21kgs – 15kgs – 9kgs as per the British Touring Cars.
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Yeah, we did ballast in the FR3.5 - I quite liked it but the only issue was that it seems after a certain weight, time lost almost squares with ballast added. It's not a linear penalty.
Yep. And it was lap-times based, not position based...
Season 8 was the Lotus GTC/GX season with success ballast, with the top 10 getting: 75kgs – 66kgs – 57kgs – 48kgs – 39kgs – 33kgs – 27kgs – 21kgs – 15kgs – 9kgs as per the British Touring Cars.
I thought we were talking about the FR3.5 season. The GTC/GX ballast system worked pretty well, I think. It was my first season, so my opinion should not count too much, but it was quite fun and decently close. The FR3.5 was a bit too much a headache with the ballast, especially because you had to setup the car for it and at some point I had 150kg+ of ballast and I did not know at all what I was doing. Also, there was the issue of using the best lap or other laps... it was very complicated to manage. The success ballast in season 8 was simple and nice enough, I think.
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Just give the lower order drivers an outrageously better car than the rest of the field, sorted! :)
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Just give the lower order drivers an outrageously better car than the rest of the field, sorted! :)
I think it was Phil that made an interesting suggestion in a server once. Have 3 separate class cars and run them all at once splitting the field equally, then give season points per class and make it that you end up driving each class in the season. If a season like that was run and groups were split into for example past season results. You could have 8 drivers in each group that would be fairly competitive in a 24 driver field with each driving in each car for 3 of the 9 rounds. You could have a slow race car like the Abarth 500 assetto corsa or M235i, second level could be a gt car and final level could be a fast open wheeler or prototype like the c9.
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It was my idea, I have been thinking about it for Thursdays next season. You could also have 3 winners per round and at the end of the season 3 class winners and an over all winner,
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It was my idea, I have been thinking about it for Thursdays next season. You could also have 3 winners per round and at the end of the season 3 class winners and an over all winner,
No need to hog the idea for thursday's :'( if each winner gets the big bucks we race for Tuesdays then I may try to make the Thursday series too. ;D
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lol, i think would be awesome on Tuesdays, I just thought we could guinea pig on Thursdays
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One of the future season ideas, Gratulin's I think, is the multiclass race like Merc C9 and the Merc 190e.
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I just put some times up, and here they are, for interest:
1. F458, 1:45.805
2. M3, 1:46.372
3. C7R, 1:46.535
I'm still fastest in the Ferrari.
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I've plugged all the Barcelona laps into my spreadsheet and come up with a slight reduction in ballast:
C7R = 35 kg
458 = 25 kg
This makes the number of people faster and slower in each car pretty equal, but it does mean that the Corvette would dominate the BMW at a track like Brands.
Might as well put up one more combo Marty with this new ballast, just for fun, as it's still a few weeks to the next season. You can choose a track.
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I've plugged all the Barcelona laps into my spreadsheet and come up with a slight reduction in ballast:
C7R = 35 kg
458 = 25 kg
This makes the number of people faster and slower in each car pretty equal, but it does mean that the Corvette would dominate the BMW at a track like Brands.
Might as well put up one more combo Marty with this new ballast, just for fun, as it's still a few weeks to the next season. You can choose a track.
It's funny, Marty and I were chatting when we were running these at Barca and came up with about the same figures. :)
I don't think the BMW is that much slower really - it's certainly more "drive-able" than the other two. From memory I think I set my fastest times at Brands and Barca in the BMW (Barca had the other cars with lots of ballast though).
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I've plugged all the Barcelona laps into my spreadsheet and come up with a slight reduction in ballast:
C7R = 35 kg
458 = 25 kg
This makes the number of people faster and slower in each car pretty equal, but it does mean that the Corvette would dominate the BMW at a track like Brands.
Might as well put up one more combo Marty with this new ballast, just for fun, as it's still a few weeks to the next season. You can choose a track.
It's funny, Marty and I were chatting when we were running these at Barca and came up with about the same figures. :)
I don't think the BMW is that much slower really - it's certainly more "drive-able" than the other two. From memory I think I set my fastest times at Brands and Barca in the BMW (Barca had the other cars with lots of ballast though).
You've been able to get similar times out of all the cars, no matter what the ballast. It's lower down in the times that they start to spread out for the greater unwashed masses.
Barcelona is a really tricky track. I cannot consistently get turns 1, 5, 7, 10 or 12 right. I always feel like I've screwed those corners up a little.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Catalunya.svg/640px-Catalunya.svg.png)
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@Wally: I am no GB, but I thought I'd put down my 2 cents. Mostly I am interested to see if others think the same way (which would suggests my impressions are not complete bulls**t)
T1: I'd say you just find a good braking point and try to be patient for turn in. Then you should sacrifice t1 anyway, as all that matters is a good line through 2 and 3.
T5 is notoriously evil. Martin Brundle this year mentioned "you always had to miss the apex and stay a bit wide there". I think it's less important for GT cars, but it is very steep and bumpy at the apex and it's preferable to sacrifice speed there for a cleaner exit (letting it slide slightly to complete rotation often works nicely, though).
T10: my impression is that without abs this is a very tricky braking point. Because you need trail-braking to turn in and get a decent line to accelerate as soon as you can without losing the back, but it is a bit bumpy, so it so easy to block the front tyres (if brake bias is right... otherwise you lose the back, which is even worse). I have seen some following a double-apex line, but it seems to me that the fastest guys manage to take a clean apex at the beginning and then just keep it kind of in the middle of the road for most of the throttle-on part.
T12: one of the most "patient" corners out there. In the GP track, I often find it easier to take a double-apex, a bit like Luffield at Silverstone. But in the Moto version, it's probably better to just take a slightly late apex, follow the inside line using a bit of throttle to rotate it nicely, and then find some markers to tell you when to start to give plenty of gas. The only important thing is to have it straight by the time you are on the green concrete and kerb on the exit.
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Good tips, Grat. I think the way I usually stuff up most of those particular corners is by coming in too fast and pushing wide.
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Ive moved the server to Imola with Wally's new ballasts, I think c7 maybe needs about 50kg and suspect it will be just a touch quick here.
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Thanks Marty.
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Hey Marty. I had to kick a guy today on the gt2 server (cut the chicane and then crashed into the pack on the other side. No reply to request of explanation, Checked replay. Came back. Kicked.). I just used \kick "name" . Is that the correct command you wish me to use in these cases? Or should I use one of the fancy /st commands?
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Bit of a mess in there tonight. 2 races on a row was ne front of grid and got rammed off at t1. Second time it happened i just quit.
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Hey Marty. I had to kick a guy today on the gt2 server (cut the chicane and then crashed into the pack on the other side. No reply to request of explanation, Checked replay. Came back. Kicked.). I just used \kick "name" . Is that the correct command you wish me to use in these cases? Or should I use one of the fancy /st commands?
You can use any method to kick, if you have ptracker this is easiest way to kick. I have also noticed AB minorating level seems to have dropped a fair bit. The numbers in the servers are raising too bit seems to be at the expense of quality so Ive been trying to get Minolin to allow A only but its not currently possible.
If I see anyone blatantly chicane cutting in stracker I will add them to the blacklist. My pc was playing up so I didnt run many races but there was some fairly crappy racing in there while I was in.
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23. Bacchulum Chevrolet Corvette C7R 01:47.710
24. Bacchulum Ferrari 458 GT2 01:47.951
25. Bacchulum BMW M3 GT2 01:47.974
Pretty close now for me, Wally. ;)
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I am still fastest in the 458, and have been in all combos. If we run a season in these, I think my car choice is made.
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Even though I'm slowest in the BMW, I have one painted in Aleph Null colours, so my choice is made. ???
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Even though I'm slowest in the BMW, I have one painted in Aleph Null colours, so my choice is made. ???
Can't beat that logic :)
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Maybe a track change for this test, I think a fast track such as Spa, Monza or Mugello. If the track goes to Spa or Monza then also maybe make the soft tyres the option instead of the Mediums. I will do some offline tests tomorrow and see which tyres dont burn out and can get closer to optimal at those tracks or whichever of the 3 seems most popular.
I know Aloog seems to have a permanent Spa server in these so that kind of turns me off but it would also get some better data as many likely have setups for the cars there and so should have some more pace.
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I just loaded up the Imola data. The Ferrari and BMW are pretty balanced here, but the Corvette needs more ballast here as more people are faster in the Corvette than any other car. So far, averaging out the ballasts that are needed at each of the 3 tracks, you get:
Corvette: 63 kg
Ferrari: 28 kg
I'd say, with all the data we've gathered at the variety of tracks and with all the variablity from person to person and track to track, that's going to be good enough.
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Shame another season of horrible cars
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Shame another season of horrible cars
I've not driven them that much but I share the sentiment. Hoping racing them against others will be more fun.
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Shame another season of horrible cars
Wally said we'll have a poll. Perhaps you still have hopes ;)
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There will be a poll, which I'll put up tonight. Some people like GT cars, some people like open wheelers, some people like road cars. You just have to keep mixing it up. The season before last was open wheelers - the Ferrari/Lotus season.
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I know, I am just a grumpy old man :)
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I just loaded up the Imola data. The Ferrari and BMW are pretty balanced here, but the Corvette needs more ballast here as more people are faster in the Corvette than any other car. So far, averaging out the ballasts that are needed at each of the 3 tracks, you get:
Corvette: 63 kg
Ferrari: 28 kg
I'd say, with all the data we've gathered at the variety of tracks and with all the variablity from person to person and track to track, that's going to be good enough.
I still think 50kg max 55 would be good for the c7, 63 seems a bit much but I will move the server over tomorrow to a faster track with soft tyres. I can set c7 at 63 but then it will just end up much like at Barcelona at 85 where it was a bit too slow. No better way to find out then test though so if Wally thinks 63 kg is the number thats what I will make the final test at.
Track options Monza, Spa or Possibly Vallelunga classic.
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That's the thing about collecting data - I don't just "think" 63kg would be a good figure, that's what the data shows. If I didn't follow the data, I might as well say "Matthew got the most points in season 13, but really, I think Guybrush should have won, so I'll call him the champ". Sure, the Corvette will be slower at some tracks and faster at others, but so will all the cars.
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Seems your data has come up fairly good, good fun and all cars are competitive at Vallelunga. Cars are much more fun to drive on the softs but you also need to manage them a bit there as they can overheat.