Xtreme Gaming Network
Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on October 23, 2014, 11:39:57 PM
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I've configured Krahl's dedicated server, which he has kindly given me access to for experimenting, to be in a Lotus @ Nurb Sprint configuration - 15 cars only. It's a pickup server, called AUS www.xgn.com.au TUE DEDI.
I want to see if we get the same warping that we see on the regular server. So when you can, jump on that server, hopefully with a few guys, and see what the warping is like, and how it compares with Tuesday nights. It would be good if we can get Grubbet, EdWood and anyone else who often seems to warp quite a bit.
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Worth a test but it seems the few that get warping regularly have issues with their own connections. Its the same guys that get warping on my server but its pretty solid for nearly everyone else.
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Yeah, I want to try changing a few variables like getting away from a cloud host. I've been reading that cloud based virtual servers, while having a pretty good maximum performance, can fluctuate quite a lot in terms of things like bandwidth. But then you'd think it would affect everyone at once. But it's certainly worth trying a different kind of host.
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Let's get the regularly warping guys together!
Btw; it's unlikely to be a dedicated server for this purpose only - most likely a server running a large number of things, among them AC instances.
It could be a VPS, then it's even more fractured.
A proper dedi server hosting starts in the few hunded $$$'s / month on Australian soil - you need to sell quite a few AC instances on it to make a buck. Even the cheapest colocation options start at around $100 + bandwidth. And you need some older unused hardware lying around to be able to use it. (this is in a proper data centre - if it's hosted in someone's home on an NBN connection, it can be infinitely cheaper, but...)
If you consider this, the performance is really a gamble. How many people use it, what they use it for, how much did they oversell the server's capacity, the bandwidth...?
This is just an FYI, it can still work well, don't get me wrong :)
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Thats why I think it most likely is client side connection unless it effects everyone on the server but only one way to find out. We will need to try get a few on that server maybe even make it public to try fill it up and give it a proper test.
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Agree with both of you.
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it's a great test just to check that one variable.
process of elimination. scientific approach.
You guys can hypothesis all you like. tests are underway. your arguments will have to wait a few days.
Thanks Mr Krahl for the use of your paid for server.
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I am up for a test on it tonight if anyone else feels like it
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yeah need to fill it. Can we throw a fun race sunday or something? F40s hotwheels? i've got heaps of skins...
Would be better with xgn guys, to take out the long distance pings..
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if its successful I am happy to make the server larger
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I'll be on tonight. Abarth 500 S1 and the Alfa sound like fun :)
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I'll be on tonight. Abarth 500 S1 and the Alfa sound like fun :)
i'll work on some skins..
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I am 99% sure my warping issues are to do with either the line to my house or my shitty router. I have no issues when nobody else is using the net - it's quite good actually. As soon as my partner fires up Chrome my ping jumps - the more traffic the more jumping/warping I get.
I used to keep the 'net monitor' open so I could see when my ping spiked and avoid any accidents but they seem to have removed that app... >:(
Same goes for other games/general internet usage. If more than one person is on it gets crippled.
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I am 99% sure my warping issues are to do with either the line to my house or my shitty router. I have no issues when nobody else is using the net - it's quite good actually. As soon as my partner fires up Chrome my ping jumps - the more traffic the more jumping/warping I get.
I used to keep the 'net monitor' open so I could see when my ping spiked and avoid any accidents but they seem to have removed that app... >:(
Same goes for other games/general internet usage. If more than one person is on it gets crippled.
Cramjet, if you have access to your router you should be able to set QoS on for the AC protocols. Since AC doesn't use much bandwidth but requires a low ping that might mitigate the impact of others on your network. Also, double check that you are not "double NATing" ie do you also have a hardware firewall between the telco router and your LAN. I have turned my Optus cable modem into Bridge mode to avoid that problem and because it too was a shitty router.
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I've configured Krahl's dedicated server, which he has kindly given me access to for experimenting, to be in a Lotus @ Nurb Sprint configuration - 15 cars only. It's a pickup server, called AUS www.xgn.com.au TUE DEDI.
I want to see if we get the same warping that we see on the regular server. So when you can, jump on that server, hopefully with a few guys, and see what the warping is like, and how it compares with Tuesday nights. It would be good if we can get Grubbet, EdWood and anyone else who often seems to warp quite a bit.
Wally, could we have some fun with the LaFerrari on the trial server?
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To add to Gratulin's informative & helpful post, if you feel your modem isn't up to scratch you can try something new...
I'm using this thing: TP-LINK TD-W8960N it's a modem/router, costs $50 (!!)
I'm also bridging it to an R7000 router. Having said that, the little cheap tp-link is fantastic if you don't need very fast wifi.
Or if you need voip, too: TP-LINK VG3631 - same sort of deal, $80, and works very well. I've bought one of these for my company office to replace an aging billion modem, and it's both faster & more reliable.
Both have QoS settings. (rather complicated, too - I haven't had to try it yet, but I will just for the fun of it, hehe)
I've found a helpful W8960N QoS setup manual (https://sites.google.com/site/lapastenague/a-deconstruction-of-routers-and-modems/speedtouch-and-dynalink-repairs/TD_W8960N_QOS.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1), too :)
Edit: you know what, don't go for this if you need proper QoS. I've just reviewed these settings, and the information is patchy, the language is alien, the setup is helluva confusing. You need a diploma in networking to start to understand parts of it I'd guess. :(
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I've configured Krahl's dedicated server, which he has kindly given me access to for experimenting, to be in a Lotus @ Nurb Sprint configuration - 15 cars only. It's a pickup server, called AUS www.xgn.com.au TUE DEDI.
I want to see if we get the same warping that we see on the regular server. So when you can, jump on that server, hopefully with a few guys, and see what the warping is like, and how it compares with Tuesday nights. It would be good if we can get Grubbet, EdWood and anyone else who often seems to warp quite a bit.
Wally, could we have some fun with the LaFerrari on the trial server?
If I can't make it, Krahl can put whatever cars he wants on it. I think slower cars might be better, so you can drive around closer to each other and observe. Like the Alfa.
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To add to Gratulin's informative & helpful post, if you feel your modem isn't up to scratch you can try something new...
I'm using this thing: TP-LINK TD-W8960N it's a modem/router, costs $50 (!!)
I'm also bridging it to an R7000 router. Having said that, the little cheap tp-link is fantastic if you don't need very fast wifi.
Or if you need voip, too: TP-LINK VG3631 - same sort of deal, $80, and works very well. I've bought one of these for my company office to replace an aging billion modem, and it's both faster & more reliable.
Both have QoS settings. (rather complicated, too - I haven't had to try it yet, but I will just for the fun of it, hehe)
I've found a helpful W8960N QoS setup manual (https://sites.google.com/site/lapastenague/a-deconstruction-of-routers-and-modems/speedtouch-and-dynalink-repairs/TD_W8960N_QOS.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1), too :)
First thing would be to simply turn it on if not already on. Most router have a default categorisation of traffic. Problem will be that it mostly sets video and audio streaming to high priority which is the opposite to what you want.
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First thing would be to simply turn it on if not already on. Most router have a default categorisation of traffic. Problem will be that it mostly sets video and audio streaming to high priority which is the opposite to what you want.
Nah, TP-link isn't one of those.
I've compared the R7000 configs and those are understandable to me, with my basic networking knowledge, and have those (useless) defaults in. The tp-link is a jumble of technical terms, no explanation, no help. Good luck to anyone trying to set it up. Oh and all the documentation I've found was actually for an older firmware, the new one has a bunch of extra (undocumented & confusing) options. Just great.
So yeah, the modem works well, but you don't want to get into the QoS part :D
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I've configured Krahl's dedicated server, which he has kindly given me access to for experimenting, to be in a Lotus @ Nurb Sprint configuration - 15 cars only. It's a pickup server, called AUS www.xgn.com.au TUE DEDI.
I want to see if we get the same warping that we see on the regular server. So when you can, jump on that server, hopefully with a few guys, and see what the warping is like, and how it compares with Tuesday nights. It would be good if we can get Grubbet, EdWood and anyone else who often seems to warp quite a bit.
Wally, could we have some fun with the LaFerrari on the trial server?
If I can't make it, Krahl can put whatever cars he wants on it. I think slower cars might be better, so you can drive around closer to each other and observe. Like the Alfa.
I think your better off putting faster cars on the server to test lag. Driving Alfa and Abarth its much easier to race close with 350 ping guys but in a very fast car its much trickier due to speed and distance covered between each car update from the server. Also the faster cars are more twitchy so its going to do more sudden turns then in a slow heavy street car.
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For the guys who have their wifi stolen by other inconsiderate internet users in their household, would it be worth trying Power over Ethernet?
Would the fact that signal is transmitted over cable rather than wifi reduce the inconsistencies in packet loss?
I got this and my internet has been rock-solid 99% of the time compared to constant fluctuations and drop-outs using wifi. And it only cost me about $50.
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I just had a look at the server and if you want to stress test it probably best to have 24 cars available rather then 15 I think.
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I just had a look at the server and if you want to stress test it probably best to have 24 cars available rather then 15 I think.
that's the limit bro. pay-per-slot apparently bro.
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Yes, pay per slot, for 15 slots. Agree about the faster cars. Even if I can't race, I'll put up laferrari at spa.
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Yes, pay per slot, for 15 slots. Agree about the faster cars. Even if I can't race, I'll put up laferrari at spa.
I'll get some skins ready...
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For the guys who have their wifi stolen by other inconsiderate internet users in their household, would it be worth trying Power over Ethernet?
Would the fact that signal is transmitted over cable rather than wifi reduce the inconsistencies in packet loss?
I got this and my internet has been rock-solid 99% of the time compared to constant fluctuations and drop-outs using wifi. And it only cost me about $50.
I have the modem right next to my PC because I refuse to use wireless when gaming! My partner is on wireless though. I'll play around with the modem settings this evening after work - its a cheapo Huawei that came with my TPG plan. I'm not opposed to getting a better modem as the wifi across the house is crap too. I might even just get the power/ethernet adapters for the Netflix PS3 since the wifi is crappy over that distance.
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The current server is very good, in the past couple of races I've been centimetres from the car in front and had no issue with warping. It's only when my house mate will start browsing the net i might get a spike which might be once every 5 minutes or once every hour. If it gets bad and there are cars close to me i pull over.
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The current server is very good, in the past couple of races I've been centimetres from the car in front and had no issue with warping. It's only when my house mate will start browsing the net i might get a spike which might be once every 5 minutes or once every hour. If it gets bad and there are cars close to me i pull over.
I think it's been better since some of the recent AC updates. Most cars are solid, and I've spent time centimetres away from the car in front as well. But you still do see the occasional jump several metres backwards and forwards.
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I've set the server to Spa with LaFerrari and Pagani Zondas (comparable in lap times).
Passworded to stick to local pings.
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We had about 8 guys on the server, but everyone was warping a little - worse than the Amazon servers. Several people reported network quality fluctuating down to 90 and up again. Then we jumped onto one of Marty's Amazon servers, and it was much more solid.
As Bird said, this is just another virtual server and not truly a dedicated server. At this rate, it looks like netcode not handling fluctuations in client connection quality well, and we're just as well to stick with the server we've got.
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We had about 8 guys on the server, but everyone was warping a little - worse than the Amazon servers. Several people reported network quality fluctuating down to 90 and up again. Then we jumped onto one of Marty's Amazon servers, and it was much more solid.
As Bird said, this is just another virtual server and not truly a dedicated server. At this rate, it looks like netcode not handling fluctuations in client connection quality well, and we're just as well to stick with the server we've got.
Oh well least you got to test, sorry was no better, strange though I have had 15 people a few times with mopz and a couple of high pingers and nerver really had any warping, people have even commented in the past how smooth it was .
If all testing done now and not gonna use I might put back on some open wheelers. If want to ever try again just give me a yell :)
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It was certainly worth a test to compare different servers. Thanks for letting us use it.
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Seems more down to individual connections but overall there was more warp and jitter on that server then when we were back on the Amazon. Ed Wood jumped on my server later and it did warp a little but overall I think the Amazons have been doing quite well its just a few people with for whatever reason getting some poor connections that warp at times. Its not everyone on the server so it does seem to be client side issues. Thanks for the test Krahl was good to get a comparison done to see if it was the server but seems its another issue.
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anytime
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I think assetto corsa has major problems with packet loss and any internet usage on the client side, no matter how small can cause major flucuations in quality and ping, hope it gets better and this isnt another netKar Pro
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1ASUC_enAU545AU545&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=netKar+Pro+warping
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We used to race netKar, and in the last version of the game, the netcode was quite good and stable. Not perfect, but certainly good enough for bumper to bumper racing - better than the warping we're seeing occasionally now.
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cool, I have it , but only played a few times and I thought felt just as warpy, probably just the server I was on
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I also asked who hosts my server out of interest is it cloud or not. Here is the response.
Hi Philip,
To clear things up for you all of our servers, Including game, are run on dedicated servers.
As good as cloud is when it comes to game servers the performance is not as good as it is on dedicated servers due to core speeds usually being lower on the nodes powering cloud as they go for more cores over the clock speed of the cpu.
He also said they have just upgraded and moved servers to a new data location and that probably is giving lower than optimal performance until they have finished the total migration.
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Just sent me this if anyone is interested
Hi Philip,
I can give you a run down of the basics of what your server runs on.
We run Assetto Corsa on a Multi-Core processor clocked at 3.8GHz with hyper-threading enabled, 16Gb of ram for the system, Windows Server and Solid State Drives for storage and a 1 Gbps network connection configured for running game servers.
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Oh well least you got to test, sorry was no better, strange though I have had 15 people a few times with mopz and a couple of high pingers and nerver really had any warping, people have even commented in the past how smooth it was .
It could be that tomorrow it'll be great, or simply another time it'd be great, then bad again. It's the nature of shared environments. I had clients on servers that run absolutely perfect for 90% of the time, but nearly every day at certain times someone started up something and the whole server was going like a bloody snail for half an hour.
As I wrote; it may be a dedicated server, but to make a buck they will have to sell services to a lot of people. So in essence they're doing the same that any cloud service does; selling a share of the resources to each user. The big difference is that in cloud environments the separation is better, and the resources can often be moved from server to server very simply.
Btw they gave out precious little information about it, after all. We don't know anything important about where and what they're selling.
And that blurb about the CPU is of no concern; just check the cpu usage on any amazon instance, you'll see they can take a lot.
Besides...if they sell a lot of instances on that server, they either need to run some virtualisation software (which itself takes up a bit of cpu - and frankly, they'll be no better than any cloud service) or they can't guarantee a good cpu availability - even one client can overload the server with a faulty software.
In any case; many thanks for letting us try it!
As long as a server (and its connection) is running well under capacity, it can be a very good place to be.
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Well the guys I was following were smooth as butter. I think it just comes down to how AC handles p packet loss.
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Well the guys I was following were smooth as butter. I think it just comes down to how AC handles p packet loss.
I didn't notice any warping last night. Noticed a few idiot wreckers though. Think they had a few p p pa pakets lost. if you know what i mean.
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On Krahl's server, I drove behind heaps of guys for a whole lap watching their cars, and virtually everyone warped at some stage. On Marty's server, it was smooth (I think I saw EdWood warp once).
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On Krahl's server, I drove behind heaps of guys for a whole lap watching their cars, and virtually everyone warped at some stage. On Marty's server, it was smooth (I think I saw EdWood warp once).
I guess it was just the one test as well.
. I wonder if yourself, Marty and Krahl could handle doing a Tuesday night on the three different server choices? Maybe even for a few weeks to see if there is any definitive pattern?
I'm sure it is a lot of hassle and work and the result will be more questions than answers...
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Just glad I helped, Sorry it wasnt better, and any server is the same , be it cloud or dedi, they are all sharing resources of one rack to make instances ,
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Just glad I helped, Sorry it wasnt better, and any server is the same , be it cloud or dedi, they are all sharing resources of one rack to make instances ,
one rack is never enough... Story of my life.
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Just glad I helped, Sorry it wasnt better, and any server is the same , be it cloud or dedi, they are all sharing resources of one rack to make instances ,
one rack is never enough... Story of my life.
LOL
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On Krahl's server, I drove behind heaps of guys for a whole lap watching their cars, and virtually everyone warped at some stage. On Marty's server, it was smooth (I think I saw EdWood warp once).
I guess it was just the one test as well.
. I wonder if yourself, Marty and Krahl could handle doing a Tuesday night on the three different server choices? Maybe even for a few weeks to see if there is any definitive pattern?
I'm sure it is a lot of hassle and work and the result will be more questions than answers...
Too much work for negligible gain .
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I think the test last nite showed it wasnt an issue with the Amazon server as Krahl's dedi didnt perform any better with surprisingly more warping when both setup in the same way. My server actually had more slots available but we didnt use them all anyway and still had the same numbers in both and pretty much the same guys.
I think if there was clearly a benefit to the other server it would be worth doing further testing but doesnt seem to be worth it after the initial trial. Checking stats on the Amazon instances bandwidth is quite high but even running multiple servers with 24 slots each I only had issues when cars were being stuck in limbo and not being released as they should be. This has been fixed and Ive had lots of full grid servers without any issues other then to fill a server you need to run the same boring combo's. >:( something a little different struggles to fill a public server.
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I cant tell any diff . The amazon servers run just as well for me, and only get warping on any server when internet gets used, at home or some one else has there internet being used,. It seems Ac doesnt like to share even with a decent router with QOS setup which makes me think its a net code problem and nothing else, which i am sure will get sorted over time
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I was going to play with the QOS on my Billion router. Worth a try. I know pings go up at home if someone's uploading.
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I've set the QoS up on the R7000 now, but I've barely ever had problems...nobody else is hanging on the home net :)
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I don't even know what QoS means. :-[ :-[
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FYI
Round one AMI Race Night server stats: (t2.small instance):
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-il8qmRwTE_U/VEtXe3-MB1I/AAAAAAAAJYY/XdslU6B-wek/w1714-h784-no/round%2Bone%2Bserver.jpg)
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I don't even know what QoS means. :-[ :-[
Quality of Service. It means if you have multiple devices sharing your internet connection on your router, you can give some of them priority over others.
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Cool, don't need to know. 8)
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Cool, don't need to know. 8)
Well, it can help alleviating problems (i.e. warping) with AC if the problem is caused by other people using the same connection.
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I don't share. >:(
Internet is solely for AC here. 8)
(it only gets used for stuff like this during downtime :P)
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I don't share. >:(
Internet is solely for AC here. 8)
(it only gets used for stuff like this during downtime :P)
It can also help if you have any program that connects to the internet while you're playing AC.
This can be anything from windows (or other software) update to torrents.
But if you're clean and it's really only you using the 'net, there's no reason to do anything.
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Software that doesn't tell me may happen, torrents must wait for the race to finish. ;D