[Wally]

[youtube]XrKP6ThOgdA[/youtube]
I wasn't sure about this pass on me in race 3 either. Watch Mael in the purple car passing on the inside of me (silver), and pushing me wide, opening up a hole that cost me 2 spots. I was squarely on the racing line while Mael was coming from half off the grass and just forced a pass. I think that one's borderline.

Again, this is just to look at the situations, discuss and learn from them.

[Freezer]

I think overall the racing is pretty good but the contacts could be better.  I got 11 hits in race 1, none of which came from the front of my car.
The other races only slightly better.  A number of the hits result in a pass being made (let's call it Push to Pass) and at times also let others fly by in the process.  Inevitably with such close cars people are needing to drive to the limit but a little more patience would be good.

[grat]

I think overall the racing is pretty good but the contacts could be better.  I got 11 hits in race 1, none of which came from the front of my car.
The other races only slightly better.  A number of the hits result in a pass being made (let's call it Push to Pass) and at times also let others fly by in the process.  Inevitably with such close cars people are needing to drive to the limit but a little more patience would be good.

Hey Freezer: Sorry, one of them was from me in race 3 at the "short-cut". Was completely my mistake. I was in the middle of many cars and could not see anything on the side of the road, so my only gauge for the braking point was your lights. I ended up braking a bit too late anyway and tried to go on your side instead of hitting you directly, but we came to contact anyway. I remember asking you on TS to re-pass me, but when I slowed down I saw Wally behind me instead of you, and so---not knowing where you ended up---I decided to go on. Sorry again.

EDIT: you can see the accident in the last one of Marty's video. As I said: even if it was a very complicated situation, it was completely my fault. I apologize.

[marty]

I think we really should avoid the push to pass mentality, if I tap someone then I will back off and wont take that postion. Its pretty much a redress situation and ifthere was an automated way to flag these then a race admin could hand out penalties for thise using push to pass. In V8 racing particularpy they are quite strict o this and drive through penalties are given for those doing it.

Its the much easier way to make a pass but I dont think its really in the spirit of clean and fair racing. However during the season Indont think anyone has pulled this move on me and the guys that have rear ended me have mostly just stuffed their braking and hit me square in the middle. Most fairly light only a few times I needed to save a car after a rear end tap.

I will need to take a look at my pass on Bacchulum in race 2 last turn but I took that spot as I thought I held the inside line and wasnt going wide. He squeezed me a bit on entry possibly not knowing I was there as I was close in behind another car.

There was also one other car I passed in a race entering the last chicane side by side. I was on the left and slowed plus left racing room to my right through the chicane. We made no contact but on the exit I saw the car running wide and to avoid contact I went 4 wheels outside and completed the pass.

I will take a look and see if they were legit passes but at the time I thought both where fair enough. If you get driven off the road then I think you should be allowed to hold the position. I easily would have made the exit but the inside car was clearly not leaving enough room so I had to take to the grass to avoid a collision.

[Mael]

[youtube]XrKP6ThOgdA[/youtube]
I wasn't sure about this pass on me in race 3 either. Watch Mael in the purple car passing on the inside of me (silver), and pushing me wide, opening up a hole that cost me 2 spots. I was squarely on the racing line while Mael was coming from half off the grass and just forced a pass. I think that one's borderline.

Again, this is just to look at the situations, discuss and learn from them.

Yeah, you and Stan made a mistake out of the chicane and I was hoping to take advantage of it. Not quite enough space I admit but bargained on the fact that you would see me on the inside and not close the door even though you probably had the right of the corner.

I did redress the position down the straight as far as i remember but obviously it allowed StanDaam to get away from you.

[marty]

In that pass it looks like Mael has run wide at the Apex so I would say its not a clean pass, if the inside car holds the inside line I think that would be a fair pass but if they come in too hot to make the apex its a bit of a dive bomb and should be redressed which is good of Mael if thats what he did.

I had a look at all my suspect passes and also the clean move made on Bacchulum for the lead last lap race 2.

Here is that one with Bacchulum as Matt and I both pass him clean, everyone seemed to like defending the inside at t1 I mostly preferred the outside pass there anyway. All you had to do is hope the inside car doesn't outbrake themselves and push you off the road on exit. If you manage to hang on side by side through there you have the line for t2 and 3 where being outside really has little hope of making a move stick. That is also the reason I preferred the outside of 1 as inside you need to slow too much and lose speed and if your not clear on the exit of 1 your not likely to hold the position through turns 2 and 3 here.



Here is the pass I questioned at the fast chicane, this really was a sketchy place to make a move so I would only try it against people I know can hold a line. This was against Freezer and at the time I thought he was going to run wide at the exit. It seems I had enough room so well done by him to leave it, I bailed outside to avoid contact thinking I wasnt going to have enough road on the exit. In the end I didn't get the move done there but made it on the outside of the last turn. I would say I gained no advantage running off track and also we had no contact in the sketchiest bit of track to go side by side so all good.



Here is race 1 last lap mugging of Bacchulum as he got together with another car and 3 of us made the run and got past into the last turn, comparing this to the Mael and Wally contact last turn I think I held my line and the outside car turned in on me. It only cost him the place and so I felt it was fair for me to keep that position in this case.



This one is interesting as its quite similar to the end of the big messy one in race 1 where Jeremy went the gap 3 wide in the middle of Vipergod and Bafs. I was making a move on Matthew into t1 outside again and he out braked himself in defence, I was checking up and running wide to get him on the double cross as I saw he wasn't going to make the corner when he started to brake. Unfortunately for Wally he ran into the back of him but it was clear that Matthew was not going to take advantage of the contact and was waiting for Wally to keep going ahead of him. As I wasn't involved in any of the contact I figured its fair enough for me to try get both spots, there was a fairly big gap in the middle and so I took it hoping they wouldn't squeeze in as happened to Jeremy. This could have ended in the same way but as I had a fair run on them I assumed they wouldn't try to defend against me and that's how it ended up a clean pass, not a very different move but a very different result. That's why though I think Jeremy could have backed off if he wasn't the one that caused the initial contacts he had every right to go the gap in the middle of the 2 slower cars. I quite likely would have done exactly the same and possibly would have ended the same way as its hard to say if you could have slowed enough to avoid contact once the door was slammed shut on him.



I saw Lan9az was questioning in chat about who drove him off the road lap 1 of race 3, here is his first lap which according to results include 16 contact. Not all of it was his fault but quite a bit of it was him not holding a line and also squeezing others off the road. Possibly just due to not being aware of those around him, if on a single screen setup its very hard to see cars beside but I highly recommend he gets the helicorsa app as it greatly improves visibilty of cars around you. If you have any overlap its always best to leave room and if 3 wide you need to try and drive as straight a line as possible as drifting across the road will cause the end result he had this lap.

[Bacchulum]

Sorry to anyone I had contact with in R3, I should have skipped it like slideways as my pain killers had me a bit slow witted by then.

Marty, I didn't really have a choice but to defend the inside line at the end of R2 as you were outside of me from the last corner.
And the 'mugging' was fair, I didn't see you behind the other car and closed the door on you.

[marty]

Yea well its kind of expected to defend the inside line at t1 even if its not necessarily the fastest or best option. This is why most passes I made were outside as people can only chose 1 side to defend. However as you said in that case I was outside on exit last turn so that made our t1 decisions for us and I was normally fairly good exiting the last turn having my decision made for me quite a few times.

In general I prefer it if guys choose to overly defend as it just makes it much easier to pass them. If behind and someone cleary wants an inside lane they are pretty much saying I wont let you pass here but will be very slow on exit to give you a nice chance into the next turn. I then just take away their entry by going outside and wait to see what they do. If they look like they will brake too late I will go wider and get a late apex for the inside pass. If they make the apex I will hang in outside and take away their exit so they will also need to slow more and we will likely be side by side into the next turn.

Someone holding the racing line hitting apexes is the hardest to pass. Its also the best form of defense and the guys trying to hold position by late braking when no actual pass is made are just risking an error costing them the pass.

The late braker or dive bomber is quite hazardpus to have behind and these guys I normally take the inside line early to showthat the divebomb is not on. Its impossible for a divebomber to ever make an outside pass and nore to avoid them hitting me I try to make it as obvious as possible that I have taken away that play.

This is the cool thing about this season, the racing has been quite good overall and even passing in a pack can lead to being hung out to dry and end up losing a bunch of spots. This also encourages more action as people start smelling blood and like in the mugging we didint need a second invite. 

[grat]

I was hit or I hit cars in the middle of the track every race.  Any chance of a decent season result gone in one night.  Feels like racing on a public server with all the dive bombing this format has seemed to have taught peoples

Dive bombing... a matter of point of view?

Phil: please take this with a good laugh. I am the first to witness you are an impeccably clean racer, and I had tons of battles with you. I just think we all get a bit annoyed when bad luck strikes on us. But it is helpful---at least for me---to realize what you can see if you stay in somebody else's shoes.

So I have made this video. It shows three points of view on a silly lap 1 accident between me and you and others on lap 1 in race 2. (sorry for the quality guys. It is my first ever screen recording and youtube video. All in one.

First video: Phil's point of view.Freezer is a lunatic spinner, and I am a maniac pushing everybody off the road. Phil is hit many times for no reasons and ends up in the grass entering the "short-cut"

Second video: grat's point of view.Nothing to notice really. Just you are going prudent and as straight as you can but cars seem to close all over you. You brake prudently for the "short-cut" while you notice Phil coming in quite fast in the mirrors. All you can do is leave some space and hope you do not hit too many others on your left.

Third video: F5 point of view.I think that from this point of you will admit that grat did not close you into the grass. He simply got pushed in there by Freezer, who had no knowledge of how many cars were on his right and he had another car on the left. The only 2 things you can notice in the vvideo is that Phil was a bit impatient with Freezer on the last corner of the Mercedes arena and... dive mombed in the "short-cut"

[Wally]

Great videos and discussion, guys.

Marty is a good passer. It feels like every pass is a patient, clean one. Maybe it's easier to pass when you know you're the fastest guy out there

The racing is so tight and bunched up, there will be some scrapes, especially if cars are three wide.. In the overhead view of Grat's video, it does look a bit strange how fast Phil comes down the inside when the road was chockers in front of him.

[marty]

Nice video Grat, that shows things so differnet from the above view and I needed to see it a few times to really get an idea of whats going on as its pretty hectic.

My analysis is initial contact was Phil into Freezer that got him a little loose only a slight bump that got Freezer wide. A big gap opened for grat in the middle 4 wide which when Freezer noticed Mael to his outside he moved right. However Grat was making a move and Phil was inside so Grat had to go right to avoid Freezer who likely had no Idea Phil was also there and they were 4 wide making Grat the meat in the sandwich.

Then into the hairpin Mael likely has no idea Phil is inside Grat and is only leaving room for Grat who then has to move right which squeezes Phil on the grass losing braking and causing a dive into the pack.

[grat]

Yes, Marty: that sums it up pretty well, I think. But the sole fact that it takes many lines to describe it also tells us that it is impossible to think we could avoid this kind of scrambles.

[grat]

I forgot my REPORT!

Report:

Commuting was pretty hectic last night. I had to stay in traffic for a long time, passed a few car crashes along the way, and my car... well, let's say the smash repairer has just bought tickets for a trip to the Seychelles.

That said, I managed to arrive in time at destination, and only Matthew was already there, while Marty and Jeremy parked their cars just close to mine. Others arrived later, but most of them seemed happy.

[Phil.8]

i don't take it the wrong way, I know I am guilty of it also this season, its the nature of it i guess

[Bafs17]

I think some moves are inherently risky. Most of the faster drivers pull off what I consider traditional passes on me where they either get me clean on entry or exit. However, occasionally it feels like you're treated like an AI driver and all you have to do is barge into half an opening. This is why I usually give lots of room because it's either move aside or risk closing the door on a move and getting pushed out. If you're on the inside chances are you'll not get the worst consequence.

Is it the pointy end of the season and therefore more risks are taken to get the extra points?

With the first video I feel sorry for Viper the most as he did leave plenty of room and came off badly. To me the track was narrowing at that point and 3 wide in? I don't know. Arguments could be made both ways. I do know that everyone behind would've eventually got me a few corners later.