[Wally]

The RSR rank now includes the Jap Pack cars. Here are the stats I've gleaned from the top 5% of rank times across a variety of tracks:

Mazda RX-7 Spirit R,               0.36,     151   
Nissan 370z Nismo,                 1.25,     245   
Mazda MX5 Cup,                     0.03,     785   
BMW Z4 E89 Drift,                  1.57,     4     
Lotus Elise SC Step2,              1.73,     11    
BMW Z4 E89 Step1,                  0.37,     17    
Toyota Supra MKIV,                 0.23,     224   
Nissan Skyline GTR R34 V-Spec,     0.46,     196 

The first number is the gap to the previous car; the second number is the number of laps that have been looked at - a lot of laps already.

It looks like the Mazda MX5 Cup might be worth throwing into the mix.

[Rolz]

the epic late breaking you can do in the MX5 is cool and should give it a chance against the top speed cars in a small track

[marty]

I think the mx5 cup is too different and would be quite painful in traffic and just cause issues.

Here isthe comparison between rx7 and mx5 cup at Nurburg sprint.

http://52.62.170.191:50041/lapdetails?lapid=64458#

Here is just the speed comparison graph showing how different they are.

The other thing is I still wouldnt use rsr data simple fact I ran about 6 laps using rsr in 2 cars and both are records by 1.3 seconds or so. On my servers there have been way more laps that are also much close and running at lower grip levels.

Unless RSR is used by more people it really is only a very rough estimate of cars potential. Putting a combo on a server getting way more laps in the same conditions shows the cars potential better then rsr does these days.

[Rolz]

I was talking about little tracks like Modena... my PB (97% grip) was only .01 off Marty in RX7, but a 1:00 is easly doable in the hands of a good driver.

Even Nurburg sprint is too big a track for the MX5.

[marty]

Possibly modena would be ok for it but the cars get their laptime so differently on very different tyres I really dont think theyd mix that well in a race even if getting identical laptimes.

[Rolz]

Yeah agreed, track list will really decide if MX5 is worth including, anything with longer straights than Modena it would be out against the others.

[Wally]

I think the mx5 cup is too different and would be quite painful in traffic and just cause issues.

Here isthe comparison between rx7 and mx5 cup at Nurburg sprint.

http://52.62.170.191:50041/lapdetails?lapid=64458#

Here is just the speed comparison graph showing how different they are.

The other thing is I still wouldnt use rsr data simple fact I ran about 6 laps using rsr in 2 cars and both are records by 1.3 seconds or so. On my servers there have been way more laps that are also much close and running at lower grip levels.

Unless RSR is used by more people it really is only a very rough estimate of cars potential. Putting a combo on a server getting way more laps in the same conditions shows the cars potential better then rsr does these days.

Marty, I know you don't like RSR data, but this is a total of 1,601 laps across a variety of tracks, not just one track, and that's just the top 5% of times. That's quite representative of Mr. Joe ReasonableDriver, who makes up the majority of our league. 785 laps have been done in the MX5 alone. It's all about giving people a reasonably close set of cars to choose from. Some have strengths; some have weaknesses - that's all part of the gamble, or the fun if you like, of choosing a car, and remember you can always swap cars mid-season. How will the Slicks of the MX5 hold up compared to the Semislicks of the other cars? How will the MX5 cope in traffic with a reverse grid? That's something you're going to have to work out, or gamble on.

Using just one track doesn't paint a good picture. Some cars will be good at one track, and not so good at another. You need to average it out over a range of tracks to ensure that everyone has a reasonable chance in any car across a whole season.

[Wally]

Yeah agreed, track list will really decide if MX5 is worth including, anything with longer straights than Modena it would be out against the others.

The track list will have a mix of tighter tracks and faster tracks. The MX5 will be strong at some tracks and weaker at others. Something to think about when you make your car choice. No one is forced to choose any particular car.

Here's the track list:

Paul Ricard WTCC
Tsukuba
Brands Hatch Indy
Imola
Baskerville
Silverstone Intn’l
Magione
Eastern Creek Druitt

[Rolz]

Thanks for the track list Wally!

There are 1-2 I don't have so u might need to share the version u will run.

Then I'll give the RX7 and MX5 a run on all... decide then 

[Wally]

Thanks for the track list Wally!

There are 1-2 I don't have so u might need to share the version u will run.

Then I'll give the RX7 and MX5 a run on all... decide then 

OK, I'll put up download links and maybe make another thread.

Re the time comparison - it's all about this question: "Will random Driver X in car 1 have close racing with random Driver Y in car 2?". The question is not "Is Driver X faster in car 1 or car 2?" If you think of it that way, you can see that the RSR rank shows you on average, which cars will give close racing across a whole range of drivers of varying talent.

[Rolz]

Agree Wally

Just both cars are a real pleasure to drive.

Surprisingly I've never been a Wah-Wah-Wah rotary fan, but somehow the way the RX7 drives it really suits me.
MX5 same again, really captured my imagination.

[marty]

Thanks for the track list Wally!

There are 1-2 I don't have so u might need to share the version u will run.

Then I'll give the RX7 and MX5 a run on all... decide then 

OK, I'll put up download links and maybe make another thread.

Re the time comparison - it's all about this question: "Will random Driver X in car 1 have close racing with random Driver Y in car 2?". The question is not "Is Driver X faster in car 1 or car 2?" If you think of it that way, you can see that the RSR rank shows you on average, which cars will give close racing across a whole range of drivers of varying talent.

If you think cars that have a 28kmh top speed difference can ever produce close racing then that has a diferrent meaning to what I think it has.  Already the jap pack has a clear quick car with 2 others that a good driver can almost compete with others driving the rx7 assuming that the fastest guys arent also in the rx7, the Supra that is a good choice if you want to be consistantly last.  The other cars do match up as they are in the same type of class even if some are a bit quicker then others. The mx5 cup is a completly different car that doesnt have any real direct competitor in AC as yet that I can see and so should just be raced in a single car field not in this sort of field I think.

Reverse grid racing with a car in the field that is so different I just see turning into a complete mess, the brake points for it are half the distance and cornering speeds are much faster while being way off on top speed. The people in it wont have any hope against every other car due to lack of speed and just spreading gaps out further amongst all others by the mx5 getting in the way so making the racing worse for everyone with it in the field.

I did test this when it first came out racing all the other jap pack cars, as I first saw times were close but in traffic they werent close at all.

[Wally]

Well, lots to think about in your car choice then, huh? 

[grat]

Hey, I don't want to be annoying, but... I actually agree completely with Marty. Mixing completely different type of cars with similar overall performance is great for the Mille Miglia and other time trials, but I am scared it would make for really bad short-track racing.

[Wally]

Hey, I don't want to be annoying, but... I actually agree completely with Marty. Mixing completely different type of cars with similar overall performance is great for the Mille Miglia and other time trials, but I am scared it would make for really bad short-track racing.

Don't be scared... embrace the challenge as a sim racer. Having some MX5s (maybe!) on the track might make your race a little harder, it might make it a little more interesting... no one knows. You just have to deal with it.

 Remember, it is completely up to each individual what car they choose, and why.