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S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat

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Offline Wally

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S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« on: February 09, 2016, 10:11:00 PM »
RACE RESULTS
SEASON STANDINGS

Round Points
 
QualRace 1Race 2Points
Guybrush Threepwood157575
165
Paul126363
138
Marty105353
116
Freezer53845
88
christopheraser24521
68
Matthew11183030
68
StanDaam31838
59
Wally02127
48
Rolz42711
42
Ysu02415
39
AJ01512
27
Bacchulum0124
25
Mael0119
20
Doobs0514
19
Grat6121
19
Jeremy0118
19
Rob088
16
Ben0140
14
Gratulin091
10
Chap111063
9
Dave O016
7
Phil.8115
7
Flattop030
3
Congratulations to Guybrush on the clean sweep: pole and both race wins.

Season Podium
1. Guybrush, 330
2. StanDaam, 252
3. Marty, 244
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 11:03:19 PM by Wally »
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline grat

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2016, 10:30:47 PM »
Very tough night for me. It looked like I had a good pace in race, but it went really bad. I really do not know what happened with Matthew in Race 1 as I do not have a replay of that one. I thought I was being really careful, but maybe I moved the wrong way. Perhaps Marty can do one of his super-replay analysis and I can learn something from it? :D :-[.

I recovered in 13th, I think, and managed to get back to 10th or so. Then Wally spun in turn 1 and we could not really avoid collision again.

I tried to relax for race 2, but I think I misjudged a heavy traffic situation with Stan, Wally, and a third driver I can't recall. Again, I do not have a replay, but I think it is my fault: they slowed down a lot because they ended up in 3 at corner entry. I tried to basically brake hard and swerve on the side where there was no car, but this also happened to be more or less the racing line. So we all touched. sorry guys!

Anyway: at that point I was just lapped by everybody and decided I would have just been a danger in a track that... well, it is not easy for lapped people to find their space.

I do not know what' going on the last 2 weeks. I guess it was just bad luck. I sincerely feel I am getting better in traffic. Today I felt very comfortable and relaxed behind Matthew (especially after we opened a gap from the guy behind) and last week I was hunter for both races, suggesting I am starting to be ok following somebody close. But then I end up in crashes way too often for my tastes, which means I surely am still doing something wrong.... any help or feedback or words of encouragement are welcome :)

PS: I'll miss next Monday so see you all in Monza
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 10:32:21 PM by grat »

Offline Phil.8

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2016, 10:55:02 PM »
I blame the car Grat,, it has ok pace for a few laps when hot lapping, but once in traffic its a handful, get to close to someone in front loses all front grip, which is fair enough, if someone is too close behind it looses rear grip, tyres get warm quickly, and they are also dreadful on first lap as they come up to temperature. Its a shame because I really like driving it.

Also after watching Bathurst 12H I am wondering just how accurate AC is
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older

Offline grat

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2016, 10:59:19 PM »
Thanks Phill. I watched... well, some 5 hours of the race. What are you referring to?

Offline Freezer

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2016, 11:11:06 PM »
Thanks Phill. I watched... well, some 5 hours of the race. What are you referring to?
http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/02/09/sro-to-investigate-bathurst-audi-bop-figures/
Audi had a lot of downforce but slow top speed making it hard to pass at Bathurst.

Offline grat

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2016, 11:22:23 PM »
I see: so you think the relative performances of the different cars in AC do not match... We could test this at monza. Set the wings to 0 and look at top speed and speed around parabolica. It is not super-scientific, but it can give us some ideas.

Offline Freezer

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2016, 11:23:57 PM »
I see: so you think the relative performances of the different cars in AC do not match... We could test this at monza. Set the wings to 0 and look at top speed and speed around parabolica. It is not super-scientific, but it can give us some ideas.
The issue is that the overall laps speed is fine, but the Audi makes it up in the bends where it is hard to pass then gets blown off on the straights.  So they might lower the aero.

Offline grat

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2016, 11:25:42 PM »
Yes, I understand that. I thought you (or Phill) thought that the BOP in AC is not the same.

Offline Wally

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2016, 11:38:15 PM »
I tried to relax for race 2, but I think I misjudged a heavy traffic situation with Stan, Wally, and a third driver I can't recall. Again, I do not have a replay, but I think it is my fault: they slowed down a lot because they ended up in 3 at corner entry. I tried to basically brake hard and swerve on the side where there was no car, but this also happened to be more or less the racing line. So we all touched. sorry guys!
I watched the replay, and I think what was missing here was awareness not only of the car in front of you, but also a few more cars in front as well. That corner was full of cars - me and two others, and although there was a gap to my right, there wasn't really anywhere to go. With the corner that congested, you know we are all going to have to slow a little to make it around.

I see that a bit - where people don't seem to be aware that the car in front is going to have to brake earlier, or approach the corner a bit slower, if the corner ahead is full of cars trying to negotiating it. You have to watch a few cars ahead to anticipate what the car directly in front of you is going to do.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline marty

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2016, 11:39:33 PM »
I see: so you think the relative performances of the different cars in AC do not match... We could test this at monza. Set the wings to 0 and look at top speed and speed around parabolica. It is not super-scientific, but it can give us some ideas.
The issue is that the overall laps speed is fine, but the Audi makes it up in the bends where it is hard to pass then gets blown off on the straights.  So they might lower the aero.

Ive done the tests and at nearly all tracks there is maybe 5kmh between all the gt3 cars depending on aero setup. For example bathurst at Conrod all gt3 cars were between 280 and 285kmh running a bit of aero. Take too much off and some lost speed getting onto the straight so were actually slower and also needed to brake earlier for the chase. The 650s is actually vmax 274kmh there at 0 0 aero or 1 4 aero it makes no difference except with 0 0 its about 2 seconds slower due to loss of cornering and brake performance. The SCG actually was the quickest there at 289kmh with the z4, Lambo, GTR and Mercs all around 285 with the Audi around 281 yet it was actually the quickest around the lap for me. The 650's s there I was 1.5 seconds slower then all the other cars and this doesnt match the BOP of the real cars as the Audi was actually the slowest with the 650 only being a few kmh down on the others.

You will see top speeds next round at Mugello should be pretty much the same if not quicker then Bathurst but the 650 will be 15kmh down to the fast cars if not more as most of the straight is uphill to begin with but it may get the best run out of the last turn so this will help it a little.

Very tough night for me. It looked like I had a good pace in race, but it went really bad. I really do not know what happened with Matthew in Race 1 as I do not have a replay of that one. I thought I was being really careful, but maybe I moved the wrong way. Perhaps Marty can do one of his super-replay analysis and I can learn something from it? :D :-[.

I recovered in 13th, I think, and managed to get back to 10th or so. Then Wally spun in turn 1 and we could not really avoid collision again.

I tried to relax for race 2, but I think I misjudged a heavy traffic situation with Stan, Wally, and a third driver I can't recall. Again, I do not have a replay, but I think it is my fault: they slowed down a lot because they ended up in 3 at corner entry. I tried to basically brake hard and swerve on the side where there was no car, but this also happened to be more or less the racing line. So we all touched. sorry guys!

Anyway: at that point I was just lapped by everybody and decided I would have just been a danger in a track that... well, it is not easy for lapped people to find their space.

I do not know what' going on the last 2 weeks. I guess it was just bad luck. I sincerely feel I am getting better in traffic. Today I felt very comfortable and relaxed behind Matthew (especially after we opened a gap from the guy behind) and last week I was hunter for both races, suggesting I am starting to be ok following somebody close. But then I end up in crashes way too often for my tastes, which means I surely am still doing something wrong.... any help or feedback or words of encouragement are welcome :)

PS: I'll miss next Monday so see you all in Monza

Lucky for you Grat the races are tuesday so its ok if you miss Monday practice. :)

I will take a look at your incident and will try make a little video up as its a great way for people to learn. Many times you wont even see if you are in the wrong or not until seeing a replay. I know many times I thought someone screwed me over until looking at the replay and seeing I was a big part if not the entire part at fault.

The racing was fun race 1 was a great battle with Paul and looking at the results there was only 1 lap were the gap stretched over 1 second and there it was 1.069 the lap just after he passed me after my mistake into the 2nd last corner. We pitted nose to tail and exited the same way then continued on. I gave it all I had but he drove too well in the end beating me by .179 at the line. Well done to Guybrush who just had way too much pace for me. In the end I found out Paul had some front aero damage on lap 1 with contact with Guybrush and so that explains how I was so close to his pace. :)

Race 2 was a tougher ask as he remained damage free and so I went as hard as possible every lap start to finish. I was down 4 seconds before I stopped and hoped to do an undercut, I gained just over 2 seconds on my oultap as he pitted the next lap. Shame as 1 more lap I may have made the spot, then I figured I need to push even harder to try and make anything up. I was gaining maybe .1 per lap giving it everything and in the end on the last stint I ended up 1.4 seconds behind him making up an entire .4 the last 12 laps pushing harder then I did in qualy.

Good racing, next week I think the track will suit most cars fairly well. The main straight may be a killer for the mclaren but it should be mega the rest of the track and possibly may even have some passing chances against the more awkward cornering rocketships.


Offline grat

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2016, 11:46:03 PM »
I tried to relax for race 2, but I think I misjudged a heavy traffic situation with Stan, Wally, and a third driver I can't recall. Again, I do not have a replay, but I think it is my fault: they slowed down a lot because they ended up in 3 at corner entry. I tried to basically brake hard and swerve on the side where there was no car, but this also happened to be more or less the racing line. So we all touched. sorry guys!
I watched the replay, and I think what was missing here was awareness not only of the car in front of you, but also a few more cars in front as well. That corner was full of cars - me and two others, and although there was a gap to my right, there wasn't really anywhere to go. With the corner that congested, you know we are all going to have to slow a little to make it around.

I see that a bit - where people don't seem to be aware that the car in front is going to have to brake earlier, or approach the corner a bit slower, if the corner ahead is full of cars trying to negotiating it. You have to watch a few cars ahead to anticipate what the car directly in front of you is going to do.
Yes, that is what I thought happened. Definitely I misjudged the whole pack ahead of me because I arrived at that corner at a much higher speed than you guys. I should have thought that as you were all fighting it would have been like that. Well: lesson learned for the future :). Thanks for the feedback and sorry again.

Offline paul_wallace

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2016, 11:50:52 PM »
Finally managed to get in a race where I didn't spin out like a noob or ruin the race for someone else!

Race 1 was really intense, Marty. Basically breathing down each others necks the entire way around. Had to copy your pit strategy as your slipstream was the only way I could see myself staying in that race :p and the finish was scary, you came out of the last corner with so much more speed and was right on my ass on the final straight (pic), had either of us been in any other car you would have 100% taken that race.

Second race was a lot easier with that front wing repaired, but after leaving pits and seeing a white car suddenly behind me again, all I could think of was "What the f... what did Marty just do!?" :) Good racing tonight, we need to hunt down GB next race!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 11:53:52 PM by paul_wallace »

Offline grat

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2016, 11:51:27 PM »
Lucky for you Grat the races are tuesday so its ok if you miss Monday practice. :)
;)

I will take a look at your incident and will try make a little video up as its a great way for people to learn. Many times you wont even see if you are in the wrong or not until seeing a replay. I know many times I thought someone screwed me over until looking at the replay and seeing I was a big part if not the entire part at fault.

Thank you. I made it a priority for me to learn to be better in traffic during this season. So any feedback and discussion is really welcome. Whether it is ultimately my fault it is not what matters. What matters is avoiding troubles, as an entire race ending two positions behind is much funnier that trying to get those positions and then driving alone last for the rest of the race... I actually discovered I love to fight for position with an undercut or just a few hard laps around the pit stops, I just need to find ways not to screw it up in the first laps while traffic is really heavy.

Looking forward to the analysis and replays :)

Offline AJ

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2016, 12:10:52 AM »
I really need to work on my close racing confidence :)

Offline Wally

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Re: S10R3: Brands Hatch Post-Race Chat
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2016, 08:35:21 AM »
My races were fairly uneventful. The Nissan was set up beautifully here. Really predictable cornering, able to put the power down early out of the corners. The early stages of the races were fun, with some sides by side racing or being in a train of cars, but later became less hectic.

I stuffed up both pit stops, overshooting the box and having to back up a little.

In race 1 I had a tank slapper coming through turn 1, which unfortunately got Grat tangled up, and let Ysu past. I think I got too much kerb somewhere and nearly lost it.

In the second half of race 2, I was alone but watching the mirrors closely, with a fast charging (and later pitting than me, with fresher tyres, I think) Bacchulum and Jeremy. I seemed to be at the head of a growing train of cars, and I wondered if I'd have to defend at the end of the race. But I think they held each other up battling each other, leaving me a clear gap.
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