Xtreme Gaming Network
Simulation Racing Leagues => Assetto Corsa => Australian Assetto Corsa League, Tuesday nights => Topic started by: Wally on December 06, 2014, 01:02:13 PM
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Hot off the rumour mill:
1967, Lotus 49 - Monza 66, Silverstone
1975, Ferrari 312T - Monza
1985, Lotus 98T - Imola, Nurburgring
2011, Lotus Exos T125 - Spa, Mugello
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'bout bloody time. 8)
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So Season 5 starts in 1967 :))
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hope the rumours are true, I love open wheelers. Hardly driven the cars with roofs much until I started racing with you all
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Interesting Wally, good mix of cars there. ;D
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I'm a big open wheeler fan myself.
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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I hate rumours, especially when they are true ;(
Although I seem to recall that it was the best Fleetwood Mac Album. Geez, how old am I. lol
rob
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so where's the F40? ;)
not old enough, eh?
P.S. Fleetwood Mac is great!
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Que? Still out of action?
so where's the F40? ;)
not old enough, eh?
P.S. Fleetwood Mac is great!
Probably on Thursdays? If not, we'll hit the F40 eventually. Gotta keep mixing it up.
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Open Wheelers FTW!
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I also want to see if we can do reverse top 10, setting the order by the finish of the previous race and skipping the next qually, setting the grid for a brief practice then the race. I'm hoping that the race start order will be as per the entry list if there's no qually session.
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Want to test it sometime?
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I think it would be cool if we could have different meet types like in the V8SC one week we do 3 short spring races another we do 2 medium length races and another where there is 1 short race and 1 long race, just an idea I had and thought I would throw it out there.
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I also want to see if we can do reverse top 10, setting the order by the finish of the previous race and skipping the next qually, setting the grid for a brief practice then the race. I'm hoping that the race start order will be as per the entry list if there's no qually session.
Pretty sure that is how it works Wally, if you have no qualy it will start cars in the entry.ini order. You can do a basic test of this after the 2nd race on tues nite, no need for guys to run another race but you can have a ready made list and do short qualy wait for all to join then skip to race. I dont see why it wouldnt work and cant imagine why it would be a random order, in the public server I noticed sometimes If I have car one and dont set a lap I will still get pole even if everyone else runs a lap. :D
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Que? Still out of action?
I have managed to turn a blind eye since I have moved but this S5 looks to be a ripper, April my Internet will be good to go. Can't wait....
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I have the Lotus 49 at Silverstone on my server (F8 Racing) if anyone wants some early test runs .
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I have the Lotus 49 at Silverstone on my server (F8 Racing) if anyone wants some early test runs .
Thanks Krahl, will jump on tonight, time permitting.
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Will there be a break over Christmas / new years before season 5?
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Will there be a break over Christmas / new years before season 5?
Yes. Just some fun runs for those that are around for a few weeks.
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Might be a good chance to try some mods?
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Might be a good chance to try some mods?
I'm open to suggestions.
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Are we going to have single car series again Wally?
I ask because it takes me about 4 weeks to get a feel for a car and be really consistent.
Back in the Formula Abarth I could run top 5 and even got a win, now I can't manage top 15 in much faster cars. :(
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Are we going to have single car series again Wally?
I ask because it takes me about 4 weeks to get a feel for a car and be really consistent.
Back in the Formula Abarth I could run top 5 and even got a win, now I can't manage top 15 in much faster cars. :(
+1 to that except for the running in top 5 bit :))
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Are we going to have single car series again Wally?
I ask because it takes me about 4 weeks to get a feel for a car and be really consistent.
Back in the Formula Abarth I could run top 5 and even got a win, now I can't manage top 15 in much faster cars. :(
That first post is pretty much the season schedule. Versatility and adaptability will be key ;)
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I know this series won't be.
I should have said:
Are we going to have single car series ever again Wally?
We seem stuck in this 'new car every week or two' mode. :(
Just wanted it to be known, not everyone is having fun with this.
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I know this series won't be.
I should have said:
Are we going to have single car series ever again Wally?
We seem stuck in this 'new car every week or two' mode. :(
Just wanted it to be known, not everyone is having fun with this.
Yeah, fair enough. You know I'm one for mixing it up. What is like to return to is a kind of "choose one car and stick with for the season" type of thing, if we can find an even choice of car, even if it's just a car out two.
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I'd be all for that. 8)
I'm not that worried about being back of field, I just miss getting to know the car.
We sort of know the quick guys and the not-so quick guys, so we could still have some semi-handicapping for closer racing.
And if we can get the 'set grid' working it could mix it up more.
I kind of thought that idea (stick to the car) would work great with the current series cars, 2 classes, GT3 & GT2.
It wouldn't work so well with the open wheelers though, too big a difference between the cars.
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There's some good parity in the GT2/GT3 classes, but people will probably want to move on to something else.
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Not sure if this is the right place to bring this up but seeing as we are airing our thoughts...
Is it worth taking another look at the way the points system works? At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time. I know the aim is to be consistent but sometimes things occur outside your control such as a disconnect, and I think quite a few of us haven't been able to attend every round.
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Not sure if this is the right place to bring this up but seeing as we are airing our thoughts...
Is it worth taking another look at the way the points system works? At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time. I know the aim is to be consistent but sometimes things occur outside your control such as a disconnect, and I think quite a few of us haven't been able to attend every round.
I don't think it needs changing. If someone can't turn up every round, it's fine, you drop your worst round anyway.
Other technical difficulties - we always said, it's a bit like real life, sometimes your brake fluid leaks...
But it'd be good to have fixed car for a season, I agree. I'm better, too, if I can learn into a car (Cobra case in point). And I lack the time and the will to do much praccy...
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There's some good parity in the GT2/GT3 classes, but people will probably want to move on to something else.
Yeah, I sort of meant I should've said something 6 weeks ago. :P
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Not sure if this is the right place to bring this up but seeing as we are airing our thoughts...
Is it worth taking another look at the way the points system works? At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time. I know the aim is to be consistent but sometimes things occur outside your control such as a disconnect, and I think quite a few of us haven't been able to attend every round.
I don't think it needs changing. If someone can't turn up every round, it's fine, you drop your worst round anyway.
Other technical difficulties - we always said, it's a bit like real life, sometimes your brake fluid leaks...
But it'd be good to have fixed car for a season, I agree. I'm better, too, if I can learn into a car (Cobra case in point). And I lack the time and the will to do much praccy...
Yes, but if you miss a round then you only need one negative event - such as someone else running into you, or a disconnect, etc. - and you are pretty much out of the running.
If you consider a disconnect, or other unrealistic event (such as someone warping into you) as a substitute for a real world mechanical failure in order to be realistic, then we should also consider that no other real world series points system works the same way as this one as far as I know.
Most series go by a percentage spread between 1st and each following place. As an example, the percentage spread of points between 1st and 10th place for the V8's, F1 and XGN are:
V8: 100%, 92%, 85%, 80%, 73%, 68%, 64%, 60%, 56%, 52%
F1: 100%, 72%, 60%, 48%, 40%, 32%, 24%, 16%, 8%, 4%
XGN: 100%, 96%, 92%, 87%, 83%, 79%, 75%, 71%, 67%, 63%
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By the percentages you've given there Guy, XGN has less disadvantage for finishing lower.
The others put much more weight on a win which would make the situation you describe worse.
At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time.
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By the percentages you've given there Guy, XGN has less disadvantage for finishing lower.
The others put much more weight on a win which would make the situation you describe worse.
At the moment there seems to be too great a disadvantage if you aren't finishing at the top all the time.
Yeah, what I meant was finishing full-stop. So if you drop out of a race.
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I want to give everyone who races some points, as an incentive, not just the top 10. Otherwise, what are the other 14 guys racing for?
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I want to give everyone who races some points, as an incentive, not just the top 10. Otherwise, what are the other 14 guys racing for?
Yes, I agree. In that case, instead of decreasing the number of points available, increase them. So the winner might get 100 points, and then 83, 70, 60... etc. down to 1 point for 24th. Just as an example.
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Even I'am drooling at the thought.. I would love to be part of this
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I want to give everyone who races some points, as an incentive, not just the top 10. Otherwise, what are the other 14 guys racing for?
Yes, I agree. In that case, instead of decreasing the number of points available, increase them. So the winner might get 100 points, and then 83, 70, 60... etc. down to 1 point for 24th. Just as an example.
What does that achieve? I suppose it gives more weight to finishing in a higher position.
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The points system isn't too bad, sure you miss a race and have more bad luck in another with computer issues your going to be down some points like I have been this season. My issues also happened on the 2 tracks I like most and am fairly good at so that makes it worse but tough luck to me.
Still the way it is Im not as far away as I would be with most other point systems and in the end it really doesn't matter as long as I find a way to win in the end. ;D
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I want to give everyone who races some points, as an incentive, not just the top 10. Otherwise, what are the other 14 guys racing for?
Yes, I agree. In that case, instead of decreasing the number of points available, increase them. So the winner might get 100 points, and then 83, 70, 60... etc. down to 1 point for 24th. Just as an example.
What does that achieve? I suppose it gives more weight to finishing in a higher position.
It means there is a greater opportunity for someone who doesn't have a good race to make upffor it and still be in the running to win.
For example, let's say there are 12 races worth equal points. Even if someone wins every race but misses a round and then gets taken out, etc. in one of the other races then they are 24 points down. So with the lack of spread in the current points system someone who comes 3rd every race, or potentially 4th every race would still win the whole thing.
Most real world points systems seem to give winning and finishing on the podium a greater distribution of points
Most
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It's worth a look. I adopted this very evenly spaced scheme in the netKar ballast days, because it stops people who aren't doing so well in a race from throwing that race away, sacrificing only a handful of points, to get a much faster car the next race, winning easily and getting a bag of points. The weighted scheme is a bit more ”real world” for unhandicapped racing, but can have this side effect for handicapped racing.
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By the sound of it Guy just wants to win something - which is fair dinkum, considering his pace even in the slowest cars. This could also be balanced via extra points for shitty cars. Sortof like the 0.5 point/50kg rule was.
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There is definatly an advantage to running each round and missing one plus having a bad race puts you in a bad position. Race 2 now is double points so have a bad one there you are down 48 points. Giving more points to the winner or higher finishers would just make you more points down on a poor race though wouldnt it? Still you would get more points for wins so can claw some more back assuming its not your main rival winning the races you dont complete.
I dont think you really need to give more points to slower cars as Guy is winning this handicao series and another great driver ;D won the last handicap series driving a standard Elise. If its already possible to win with the slower cars I dont think giving more points for these is going to help the others much.
Also as Wally says if you gain more by winning and lose less in a poor race the advantage in underperforming one race to get a better car and easier win the next may allow for more gaming of the handicaps. As it is you can try your best each race and still have a chance but if points are changed. Someone could win every second race nite and come out on top just due to gaming the handicap system.
Now if you did this and get a first one race and near the back the next you would have been better off just finishing in the top 10 twice. So there is no advantage to such a strategy and I think thats a good thing to help keep people with the real handicaps they should have.
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By the sound of it Guy just wants to win something - which is fair dinkum, considering his pace even in the slowest cars. This could also be balanced via extra points for shitty cars. Sortof like the 0.5 point/50kg rule was.
It would be great to win something but the reality is I'm probably not likely to given my work commitments and the caliber of the other great drivers in this league. Also, I doubt any results of mine would have changed previously even with a different points system in place.
The point is to look at whether we/Wally want to reflect the real world systems which offer a greater comparative reward the higher up you finish.
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By the sound of it Guy just wants to win something - which is fair dinkum, considering his pace even in the slowest cars. This could also be balanced via extra points for shitty cars. Sortof like the 0.5 point/50kg rule was.
It would be great to win something but the reality is I'm probably not likely to given my work commitments and the caliber of the other great drivers in this league. Also, I doubt any results of mine would have changed previously even with a different points system in place.
The point is to look at whether we/Wally want to reflect the real world systems which offer a greater comparative reward the higher up you finish.
Fair enough. My vote is to leave it; it's not broken, it's simple, and it still rewards consistent drivers, even in the heavily changing conditions (it's a different mix of cars every week!).
But I'm not fussed at all, I'm here for fun, only (ok ok I like to win, too, but my chances are slim with you aliens around)
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There is definatly an advantage to running each round and missing one plus having a bad race puts you in a bad position. Race 2 now is double points so have a bad one there you are down 48 points. Giving more points to the winner or higher finishers would just make you more points down on a poor race though wouldnt it? Still you would get more points for wins so can claw some more back assuming its not your main rival winning the races you dont complete.
I dont think you really need to give more points to slower cars as Guy is winning this handicao series and another great driver ;D won the last handicap series driving a standard Elise. If its already possible to win with the slower cars I dont think giving more points for these is going to help the others much.
Also as Wally says if you gain more by winning and lose less in a poor race the advantage in underperforming one race to get a better car and easier win the next may allow for more gaming of the handicaps. As it is you can try your best each race and still have a chance but if points are changed. Someone could win every second race nite and come out on top just due to gaming the handicap system.
Now if you did this and get a first one race and near the back the next you would have been better off just finishing in the top 10 twice. So there is no advantage to such a strategy and I think thats a good thing to help keep people with the real handicaps they should have.
Having more points really just allows for a finer distribution of points for each position. Using a staggered points system means that if you do miss a round and then have a bad race, you have a better chance of making up for that bad race.
Regardless of whether the winner gets 10,000 points or 24 points you are still missing out on 100% of points but with a staggered system you have a better chance of making up the deficit if you have the ability to, as opposed to a linear system where the percentage of points you can "re-gain" over a competitor is very narrow.
For example, if you have a bad race now and are 24 points behind, assuming worst case scenario that your competitor always finishes second you would have to win every race for 24 races to make up the deficit of what you lost. With something like the Formula 1 system, if they have a bad race then they would only have to win 4 races to more than overcome that deficit (discounting the silly double points last race!). I think that best illustrates why most series opt for a staggered system.
It's also similar for any position in the championship table as long as points are staggered all the way down to 24th. If you are running for 10th and have a bad race it will be harder to make up for that assuming that 10th is normally your regular finishing position.
There could be the potential for all sorts of "sharp" practices as there is now. I mean if I wanted to I could run the first round 10 seconds a lap slower than possible and then feed off that for the rest of the series knowing it won't be counted anyway, but I think most people will try their best and just want to race hard and fun without having to resort to those kinds of tactics.
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I won't comment.
This is a conversation only for the guys with a remote chance of winning.
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I won't comment.
This is a conversation only for the guys with a remote chance of winning.
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Everyone's opinion is valid. There is no right or wrong, or winning or losing, just preference.
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The real series obviously do it for a reason. I think its primarily for people to race hard, and not say ”well,third is good enough” and not push for 1 more spot. But we're not that close here. Everyone just pushes as hard as they can, and can't just ”choose” to fight for another spot.
A staggered system does unfairly advantage front runners who miss a race, because only they really have a chance to make up for a missed round with a big points haul.
I'm thinking at this stage to leave it as it is, (everyone gets a missed round), but introduce a bonus system for slower cars in a handicapped season. This way, we get closer racing, but faster guys are still rewarded with points.
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I'm also mindful of the fact that we have 24+ people racing here. You can't please all of the people all of the time. All I can do is keep it varied, try different things, handicap/no handicap, multiple cars/one car, and everyone will be happy some of the time.
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Professional sport is all about winning. We are here to have fun and having a full grid makes it fun. Wally's system promotes close racing so Marty and Guybrush don't get bored.
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I'm also mindful of the fact that we have 24+ people racing here. You can't please all of the people all of the time. All I can do is keep it varied, try different things, handicap/no handicap, multiple cars/one car, and everyone will be happy some of the time.
And I think that's the best thing. Keep things changing a bit here and there
You are doing a helluva job there mate, kudos :)
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Thanks. Fun is what it's all about.
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Can I be put on the list if it's not already full please? ;D
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Can I be put on the list if it's not already full please? ;D
I'll put a sign up thread up soon!