[Wally]

I'm not enjoying my driving at the moment. I'm out for the rest of this championship.

Thanks for the effort Wally.

No worries, thanks for taking part.

[Wally]

Wally are you able to have a look at an incident into the first Lesmo on the first lap of Race 2 for me?  I'm fairly sure I wasn't in the wrong.  I was on the outside behind another car and as we both braked into the corner (I braked a little later) the car on the inside braked across my line and hit me off.

I just want to know if it was my fault or not so I know what is permissible, and expected, so as to avoid accidents in the future.

I had a look at this, and my read of it is that you ran into the back of him. The car to the right was creeping back across to the racing line towards the left of track - it wasn't a sudden move to the left. It all happened very quickly in these cars though, of course. I think in these situations, you have to give the car in front the benefit of the doubt. After all, you can see him much more than he can see you.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

In most series the rule of thumb is that you don't move off your line under braking, but if that's allowed that's OK, it's just good to know.   Here is the replay as well so others know what we are talking about:

[youtube]aVxmqxsErPg[/youtube]

[grat]

You did not download the skin of DA Racing!!!???!!! I am all with Rolz now: well done mate!

[Wally]

It's interesting to discuss these incidents, as they're often not cut and dried. To my eye, it still looks like the other car was just in front enough to reclaim the racing line. There wasn't really any overlap.  If you were alongside him, I would have called that an unfair squeeze, but as it was, I reckon you should have anticipated the move and yielded.

I'd be interested to hear other opinions!

[grat]

My humble opinion.

For me it is really at the limit. On one hand, Rolz is clearly ahead at braking point (when GB hits 200 or so). On the other hand, he had not regained the racing line by then, and he should have not attempted to do it under braking. To be more precise: there is a car-width on the left of Rolz at braking point, so by the book GB had right to it. It was therefore at least an optimistic move. But given the situation of heavy traffic, it is hard for him to keep track of every single opponent in that moment, and probably GB is also slightly optimistic in trying to get the outside in such a messy situation.

All in all: guys, these type of accidents happen between the best drivers. Even in the diaper-like formula one today they might have called it a racing accident and give no penalties. These are not the crashes we should worry about. They will always happen any now and then.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

There was obviously overlap when we connected as I got punted off to the left of the track.

This is a really good summation of racing rules that everyone should read:
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

My defence lawyer quotes:
On a straight, a defending driver has the right to suddenly change direction, even using the entire track width if they are fully ahead of the attacking driver. The same right does not apply in or immediately before the braking zone for a corner. Sudden changes of direction just before or within the braking zone are considered extremely dangerous, as they can leave the attacking driver nowhere to go.

[grat]

There was obviously overlap when we connected as I got punted off to the left of the track.

This is a really good summation of racing rules that everyone should read:
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

My defence lawyer quotes:
On a straight, a defending driver has the right to suddenly change direction, even using the entire track width if they are fully ahead of the attacking driver. The same right does not apply in or immediately before the braking zone for a corner. Sudden changes of direction just before or within the braking zone are considered extremely dangerous, as they can leave the attacking driver nowhere to go.

GB: I said

there is a car-width on the left of Rolz at braking point, so by the book GB had right to it.

I am not sure about how much overlap there was before he brakes (looks like he brakes a little earlier than you do), but in any case if you have left a car-width before braking point, you cannot regain the racing line in any way that can cause a collision. So I think we agree completely on this. The only thing I was pointing out is that in a crowded situation, just after you both have passed a struggling car, things are a bit more foggy and many stewards would have not not penalized him (with perhaps a call in the next briefing explaining that the move was not legal per se and would not be allowed, but it was considered a racing accident only because of the confused situation).

[Wally]

The thing is, you need to watch more of the replay, from further back. Like I said in my original thoughts, it wasn't a ”sudden move”. Rolz had been slowly moving to the left for some time, and I think it could have been anticipated. You could see it coming, so you as the ”attacking driver” had somewhere to go, i.e. backing off. When I watch the replay for incidents, I use the F5 chase camera, pulled right back, and watch from both cars points of view. I also watch from both cars' cockpit cams too, to see what the driver saw.

I agree, a sudden move to cover the racing line is not on, but I wouldn't call this a sudden move. I also give more benefit of the doubt to the car in front, as the car behind can see what the other car is doing.

Yes Grat, this is just a consequence of everybody avoiding the earlier crash on the left of the track, which put everyone over on the right, a little unnaturally. It was just an incident, that happen all the time, but these discussions are always interesting, to hear different points of view of the same incident.

[marty]

After seeing the video its a tricky one as GB was holding his line yet the car ahead seems to have chose the inside to defend. But then also wants the full road to turn in, however there seems to be no overlap until after the car ahead hits the brakes.

I personally would hold the inside line if I was the forward car as chosing to defend means you still need to leave some room for the agead car but he also may have been clear at his brake point so he may have assumed the car behind wouldnt take the outside line to the entry.

The inside car does need to brake earlier to make the apex however and so this gives the car behind an opportubity to make the putside move also assuming the car ahead isnt going to swing back outside on entry.

I have hadany people do the same thing to me but even yesterday somebody maybe grat did go back outside after defending the inside even though I had overlap well before the brake point and it pushed me off the road.

This is more common and in the pub servers many times people have just driven me off the road when on a straight if we are fully side by side, on corner entry there is always a risk depending on who you try to pass on the outside.

These cars even when fat bastards can change direction very quickly so it can easily catch people unaware. There are also some people that tend to close more doors then others yet some of these guys expect you to leave them room when they cut off noses quite often. 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

The thing is, you need to watch more of the replay, from further back. Like I said in my original thoughts, it wasn't a ”sudden move”. Rolz had been slowly moving to the left for some time, and I think it could have been anticipated.

The car on the inside clearly moves more sharply under brakes toward the outside of the track though - i think we can all see that?  If the line taken before that was held then there would have been room, even if there was a gradual creeping over from the inside to the outside/middle of the track - which is why the article above says that lines should be held under braking as otherwise it leaves the attacker no-where to go.

If it were a constant creeping over the track on one line where you could anticipate the door closing then the car behind should back off.

If I were on the inside and only had my nose along-side then I should back off.

[Gratulin]

Not really commenting on what is correct or otherwise but I would have:

1. Backed off if I were the following car.
2. Not moved over if I were the lead car.

If I did otherwise it would have been by mistake.

If both cars had followed my approach then there would be no accident.