[Simone]

ok thx wally

[marty]

Im starting to think if you guys having issues in these cars could simply be the graining bug, high HP cars with cold tyres if you spin up the rears at all they will grain very badly. This will make it slide like crazy in the rear so probably best to try turn tyre warmers on and run some laps.

I drove the P1 for the first time at Nurburgring gp at regular grip and am amazed how much grip it has. Without actually putting a great lap together was fairly easily able to get into the 1:54's just ABS on but no TC. If anything Im fighting understeer in it and using DRS at a few apexes to get the rear a bit looser.

[marty]

I just jumped on the XGN practice server and see exactly that the graining bug is the entire issue wally is having. Very simple fix turn on tyre blankets no need for silly 110% grip levels, simply try it and you will see.

I didnt have the dev app on in the first run on the server and noticed my rears were shot even though I tried a no wheel spin slow start and very slow lap 1. Then I exited turned on the dev apps check the grain level and the slight burnout exiting pits before hitting the limiter has rear tyre grain level over 20. I assume that a race start will get well over 30 and so your rear tyres are done before you reach t1.

Turn on the tyre blankets and there will be no issue, rears will be fine and you will have plenty of grip all race. There is no warmup lap in AC so your starting a race on dead cold tyres and the way graining is implemented any excessive load through the tyres will cause graining, 1000hp off the line will kill rears just like it does in the 98T.

[Wally]

My entire grip discussion is a general one, a feeling I've had for a long time over many cars, that just don't feel like they have massive grip. It's nothing to do with the P1 or Ferrari in particular.

[Gratulin]

My entire grip discussion is a general one, a feeling I've had for a long time over many cars, that just don't feel like they have massive grip. It's nothing to do with the P1 or Ferrari in particular.

I think that AC has 'slip' programmed into their ffb as a way of assisting the driver to feel the limit of grip - hence the 'slip' parameter. It may mean that the driver feels the wheels slipping more than they really are. Perhaps what is needed is a negative 'slip' parameter.

[marty]

Graining effects every car its just a bigger issue with more powerful cars. The way graining works in AC is a pretty basic implementation there is a temp level that needs to be reached to stop graining build up. This is likely different for each type of tyre.

Using the p1 for example it seems the temp is around 60c. So any slip in the tyres under this will cause graining. I dont know if each value in graining would be equal to 1 percentage point less grip at that tyre but it is quite a lot less grip.

Now in a race scenario with no chance for a warm up lap and stone cold tyres. Any wheel spin, lock up or slide from front or rear will cause graining. In the p1 with no tc on in pits rears will grain to 13 with a regular start until the pit limiter. Then if you drive the outlap as you would a normal lap this figure will build on both ends before you get tyres to temp. its quite easy to have 10 front 20 rear by the end of the outlap.

This is very slippery and quite a few seconds are lost like this. Take a regular race start with normal amounts of wheel spin and agressive first few turns and tyres will be around 15 front and 30 rear and be sliding all over the place.

When I went off the line with no speed or wheel spin then took it very easy the first half a lap my grain levels were 2 front and 3.5 rear. This was still 1.5 seconds slower then no graining or very minimal of around 0.1 with blankets used.

So adding %10 more grip will make up for most of the damage caused by graining and give even more grip on top of this. I think if people use tc it likely wont be as big an issue at the rear but it will still grain driving a normal speed on cold tyres.

This happens with every car when tyres are cold its just more exaggerated with high hp cars. I think graining isnt that bad a thing and if allowed a warmup lap prior to race drivers could manage this. Still it clearly shouldnt be graining on cold tyre wheelspin as much seeing as spinning rears is a common tactic used by real drivers to heat the tyres prior to the race start.

If this was going to kill your set of tyres then nobody would be doing it. Seeing we dont have a warmup lap then tyre blankets should be used in all cars. Also with no blankets on out laps need to be so much slower theyd cause issues in traffic for qualy.

I dont see what the point of raising grip levels would be if the main issue is losing lots of grip due to graining. Tyre blankets on 100% fixes the grip loss through graining at the start of the stint. Still you can get graining if you let the tyre get too cold while on track but thats fine. They just shouldnt be murdered on the start grid or outlap as they are.

[Wally]

I like your point about a warm up lap Marty. Tyre blankets can be seen as simulating a warm up lap (much like you could warm your tyres up in netKar before a race). It will lead to safer starts so yes, I will enable tyre blankets tonight.

[Bacchulum]

How do you turn dev apps on again?
I've forgotten.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

The argument for more grip/less grip is kind of in line with my suggestion of a grip handicap as opposed to ballast.

I find the grip at 100% feels right but others may achieve similar levels of control and consistent management of sliding at less grip or more grip.  I do think adding more grip would bring the field closer together though.

Is there an easy way to try more grip without being banned or having apps identify this?

[Wally]

Copy a track, entire folder. Rename folder to xgnimola, for example. Rename kn5 file to xgnimola. Edit json.ui to call track XGN Imola. Edit surfaces.ini to increase all frictions by 10%. New track, new friction.

Its not meant to be a way to bring the field closer together

[marty]

How do you turn dev apps on again?
I've forgotten.

In the assetto corsa main folder, under system I think its called assettocorsa.ini there is an option for dev apps which is now default at 0 needs to be 1 to enable them.

Is there an easy way to try more grip without being banned or having apps identify this?

The way youve been doing it so far seems undetected. 

But I think the only way would be Wally's method of seperate tracks and no server checksum. It would basically be a method that would require users to all run the correct setting as its not realy detectable by the server what each person is running. If the server is running ptracker then each persons track checksum would be visible but that would take so long to check each driver it would be painful.

It would just be an honesty system but many would likely make mistakes of having the wrong file or setting without knowing as it would be hard to even tell what your at until opening the files.

[Wally]

I just put the same surfaces. Ini for xgnnurburgring on the practice server before, and the checksums still apply, so people will all be running the same track.

[Freezer]

I like your point about a warm up lap Marty. Tyre blankets can be seen as simulating a warm up lap (much like you could warm your tyres up in netKar before a race). It will lead to safer starts so yes, I will enable tyre blankets tonight.

Do we need to do anything re the blankets at our end...?

[Bird]

Do we need to do anything re the blankets at our end...?

Yes, of course.

Find the pit crew, tell them that the blankets MUST be on before the race. 

[Wally]

I like your point about a warm up lap Marty. Tyre blankets can be seen as simulating a warm up lap (much like you could warm your tyres up in netKar before a race). It will lead to safer starts so yes, I will enable tyre blankets tonight.

Do we need to do anything re the blankets at our end...?

I don't think so. Or maybe. I enable it on the server, maybe you also have to tick it as an offline assist before you join the server.