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A proposal for discussion - more grip

Author Topic: A proposal for discussion - more grip  (Read 45381 times)

Offline Wally

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A proposal for discussion - more grip
« on: May 30, 2015, 08:48:20 AM »
I've started a long and interesting discussion on the AC forums about how AC feels too slippery compared to real life, here: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/ac-needs-more-grip-bear-with-me.24137/

To cut a long story short, when I did a track day in a race-prepped Commodore (slicks, race brakes, roll cage), the feeling was of massive grip. I don't get the same feeling in AC. The cars slip and slide way too easily, because you have none of the fear that prevents you from pushing the car way beyond its limits as you do in real life.

I just edited the surfaces.ini for Barbagallo to increase the friction, and took the BMW M3 E92 out. It didn't take much of a friction increase at all. I only had to increase the friction from 0.97 to 1.1 (about 10%), and the car felt much more like I experienced on the track, grip-wise. You could still feel the understeer and you could still slide the car a little bit, without it feeling too slippery. AC felt a lot more like actually being on track with a little fear in the back of your mind with that little tweak.

Anyway, to the proposal.

What do you guys think about trying a race (Nurburgring next Tuesday?) with everybody's surfaces.ini edited on their PCs to bump up the grip by 10%? If I do the same on the race server, there would be no checksum mismatches.

To me, that feels more like real life, and it may even reduce crashes.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2015, 08:57:18 AM »
If we do we'll need to have RSR turned off as you'll get your account locked for modifying surfaces.ini file.

I think so anyway...  :)

Offline Gratulin

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2015, 09:35:14 AM »
We could create a copy of the track with the changed settings and call it "XGN Nurburgring"?

Offline Gratulin

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A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2015, 09:35:50 AM »
Also, one question - what were your lap times? Faster or slower?

EDIT: Faster by at least 4 seconds at Nuburgring in P1 and same "feeling" just at higher limit.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 10:35:11 AM by Gratulin »

Offline Bird

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2015, 09:50:36 AM »
I'm ok with the idea, sounds like an interesting test.

We could create a copy of the track with the changed settings and call it "XGN Nurburgring"?

That's what we should do, I reckon.  Then it's all good every which way.

Rolz

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2015, 09:51:42 AM »
I'm ok with the idea, sounds like an interesting test.

We could create a copy of the track with the changed settings and call it "XGN Nurburgring"?

That's what we should do, I reckon.  Then it's all good every which way.

Perfect :)

Offline marty

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2015, 10:06:40 AM »
I dont think it will change much other then make the cars unrealistically quick. I think if someone is sliding all over the place its simply because they are overdriving it. Im sure anyone here put in a p1 or lafa would be nowhere near the same commitment level if given a real one for 5 laps or so as they will be in their first laps in AC. If you really want the cars in AC to feel the same as your trackday experiance the you just need to back off more not raise the tyres limits even more IMHO.

Raising grip levels just will mean people get away more with overdriving but still the quicker guys will get much the same feel out of it just at higher speeds and faster laptimes.

Here is a very good driver driving some trackday cars. Ive also driven an r35 on track and can clearly say I was nowhere near his level of madness.

[youtube]YKMHKOEQAF4[/youtube]
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 10:08:58 AM by marty »

Rolz

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2015, 10:17:52 AM »
Here is a very good driver driving some trackday cars. Ive also driven an r35 on track and can clearly say I was nowhere near his level of madness.

Tiff Needell evo track battle: Nissan GT-R vs Por…:

Watching Tiff drive the door's off a car is always most enjoyable :)

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2015, 10:39:53 AM »
We could create a copy of the track with the changed settings and call it "XGN Nurburgring"?
Yeah, that would be safest.

Also, one question - what were your lap times? Faster or slower?
I didn't do enough testing yet to really compare. But I have my P1 laptimes at Nurburgring at 100% grip as a baseline.

I dont think it will change much other then make the cars unrealistically quick. I think if someone is sliding all over the place its simply because they are overdriving it. Im sure anyone here put in a p1 or lafa would be nowhere near the same commitment level if given a real one for 5 laps or so as they will be in their first laps in AC. If you really want the cars in AC to feel the same as your trackday experiance the you just need to back off more not raise the tyres limits even more IMHO.

I think people slide too easily because there's no fear holding them back, so they drive unrealistically compared to how they drive in real life. This is all about making AC feel more like how you would drive on a track in real life.

Here's a key diagram I put together:



The graph is the car's grip. As you push harder and harder, you eventually break the car's traction and slide. In real life, because of your fear, you can only drive up to the red line, and just start to make the car slide a little with a little traction loss. In a sim, you have no fear, so you can drive all the way up to the blue line, with it being all too easy to push the car way beyond its limits, losing all traction. It's not "realistic" compared to how you would actually drive at a track.

By raising the track grip just a little, it makes the driving experience closer to real life (closer to driving at the traction of the red line).


A little later, I'll set this up on the practice server, so we can give it a go.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline marty

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2015, 11:08:28 AM »
I dont see how moving the grip level makes any real difference or how it will improve driving standards. If people are crashing and sliding its because they are over driving. Having more grip will just make the quicker guys faster and so those a little off the pace will still likely over drive it to keep up. The end result will be much the same just at higher and less realistic speeds.

The reason they are normally off the pace is because they are over driving and not hitting the marks as well. Braking too late missing apexes wont be any different with more grip, the only thing that will change is that with more grip these guys may be a couple seconds quicker pushing at the same level.

The gaps to others quicker will likely be the same and in order to be quickest you will still need to be close to the cars limits. You can keep pushing the grip up or drop it down it really doesnt matter, on the limit the cars will alway be a little edgy. Its actually easier to regain control with less grip then more grip as the more grip you have, the more violent the point of regaining traction is. This makes it more likely to get a tank slapper.

Offline Glen73

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2015, 11:21:34 AM »
I didn't find the Alfa from Thursday night very realistic once up to speed, but that's not to say it isn't fun just seems to slip and slid around corners a little bit to easily.

Offline Bacchulum

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2015, 11:37:30 AM »
The Alfa is on vintage tyres though, and I have absolutely no idea what they were like. :o
All the footage I've seen shows cars slipping and sliding though.
(good ol' skool sideways stuff ;D)

2+2=√16

Offline Gratulin

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2015, 11:46:55 AM »

We could create a copy of the track with the changed settings and call it "XGN Nurburgring"?
Be careful doing this. I just tried it and even though it worked when I restarted AC it hangs on creating favourites. Not sure what is wrong yet.

Offline Bird

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2015, 12:34:09 PM »
Marty, what would happen if for once, instead of arguing it to the hilt you'd just say; "let's try it once" ? :)


We could create a copy of the track with the changed settings and call it "XGN Nurburgring"?
Be careful doing this. I just tried it and even though it worked when I restarted AC it hangs on creating favourites. Not sure what is wrong yet.

Probably some naming/ID conflict.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 12:43:00 PM by Bird »

Offline marty

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2015, 01:02:11 PM »
Marty, what would happen if for once, instead of arguing it to the hilt you'd just say; "let's try it once" ? :)


We could create a copy of the track with the changed settings and call it "XGN Nurburgring"?
Be careful doing this. I just tried it and even though it worked when I restarted AC it hangs on creating favourites. Not sure what is wrong yet.

Probably some naming/ID conflict.

It doesnt realy matter what my view is as its up to Wally what he wants to do. I dont think people need to get offended if someone expresses a different view. I didnt think you could only reply if you agree and if thats the case I will stay out of threads unless I am a yes man.  ;)

Maybe we could run a round in Mario kart later too.  ;D

 

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