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A proposal for discussion - more grip

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Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2015, 01:21:27 PM »
I like to hear everyone's opinion, for and against. That's the only way you refine your ideas.

Just to be clear, this change is not about less accidents... it's about making the game feel more realistic according to how you would actually drive on track in real life. We can try it, and if people don't like it, scrap it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Matthew111

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2015, 01:50:06 PM »
Yeah i think its just a case of not driving the car as hard in real life due to g forces etc, if you start driving the car with the same level of smoothness and technique as a real car you will find the car does have a life like way of behaving and you just need to really pay attention to the ffb. I dont think messing with the ac grip levels will be a good idea, im sure the developers at ac have spent a fair bit of time on this to get the behaviors of everything pretty close. One thing too note is apparently the ac tyre model isnt 100% the rate at which the car gains grip is linear to the load when in reality after a certain load the tyres start gaining a tiny amount of grip yet ac keeps increasing grip at this point, this is only on high speed turns, apparently the developers are looking into this and are making a new formula for it. So if anything we have slightly to  much grip haha at high speed anyway.
do you even motorsports?

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2015, 02:11:56 PM »
I have no doubt AC's grip is probably pretty close to real life mathematically. But in real life, because of fear holding you back, you don't drive up to the same grip threshold so easily. That makes AC feel less realistic than possible when it comes to available grip, I reckon. That's what I want to experiment with.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Matthew111

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2015, 02:25:12 PM »
Its a psychological thing though, im sure if you owned that commodore and you had a full days worth of driving it by the end of the day you would of found yourself with more confidence driving it a lot quicker and therefor feeling the car move around more.
do you even motorsports?

Offline StanDaam

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2015, 02:32:45 PM »
I'm happy to try more grip (although I'll never be able to compare it to a real LaFerrari, they haven't got an escape key!!)
I've been pretty happy with how AC handles loss of traction on the limits, as opposed to iracing!! but I don't mind experimenting.

Would like to see a graph of the 'Wally's post' to 'Flame On' ratio at the Assetto Corsa forum (or maybe Marty and his friend Arch..).  ;D

Offline Bacchulum

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2015, 02:55:48 PM »
I'd rather not play with it.

Personally, I'd like to see less grip (like rain) before more.
Sooner or later we'd overdrive the extra grip anyway.

2+2=√16

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2015, 03:06:24 PM »
Its a psychological thing though, im sure if you owned that commodore and you had a full days worth of driving it by the end of the day you would of found yourself with more confidence driving it a lot quicker and therefor feeling the car move around more.
That's true. I suppose the amount of extra grip would need to be proportional to your fear of driving the car. The Abarth 500, say, probably feels very realistic in terms of the grip you have at 100%. The P1 or LaFerrari would give you a lot more "code brown" moments in real life, and you'd drive it a lot more within its limits, simulated by a higher grip in the game.

By the way, I just did some laps at Nurburgring at 110% grip, and got a quick PB of 1:52.5, compared to my previous 1:57.0 at 100% grip. Being faster is not the point - it's what the grip would feel like if you actually drove the car on a track. I bet if you got into a P1 at a track, you'd be amazed at the grip and stopping power... not go sliding off into the wild blue yonder like it's so easy to do in AC.

The car is by no means on rails at 110% grip. You can still spin and drift. Just not quite so easily. There's still a ragged edge there... just a little further away. We will all still have a limit to find, and it's a level playing field.

I'm happy to try more grip (although I'll never be able to compare it to a real LaFerrari, they haven't got an escape key!!)
I've been pretty happy with how AC handles loss of traction on the limits, as opposed to iracing!! but I don't mind experimenting.

Would like to see a graph of the 'Wally's post' to 'Flame On' ratio at the Assetto Corsa forum (or maybe Marty and his friend Arch..).  ;D

You need a thick skin when you propose anything controversial to sim racers :)
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2015, 03:10:27 PM »
...Sooner or later we'd overdrive the extra grip anyway.

You may be right. Let's try it and see. I'm in the process of uploading a modified track.

I guess what it does is that at some given corner, you might not be able to floor the throttle early without provoking oversteer at 100% grip. At the same point, at 110% grip, maybe you can. It moves the ragged edge of losing control just a little further away, just like a little fear of crashing does in real life.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2015, 03:46:10 PM »
OK, practice server is up with all frictions increased by 10%, on a track called "XGN Nurburgring GP", which you can download HERE.

Download it like any mod track, and unzip it into your steamapps\common\assettocorsa\content\tracks folder.

It might be too late to get everyone onboard to try it out in next Tuesday's race. Maybe the next round.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 03:48:54 PM by Wally »
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Gratulin

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2015, 08:09:11 PM »

We could create a copy of the track with the changed settings and call it "XGN Nurburgring"?
Be careful doing this. I just tried it and even though it worked when I restarted AC it hangs on creating favourites. Not sure what is wrong yet.
Not a problem with the track changes at all!! I thought I would be clever and change two things at once  ;D :-[ Turned out to the the Nissan 180SX mod causing the problem. Deleted it and all ok.

Offline Freezer

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2015, 10:07:11 PM »
I dont see how moving the grip level makes any real difference or how it will improve driving standards.
Its an issue of the 'feel' not driving standards.  With the non existence of gforce under braking, cornering etc in a game, possibly some extra grip and therefore response out of the game might go some way to compensating and make it a more realistic feel.

EDIT: Just tried it and took 6 seconds off my time.  Car felt good, not waiting for the front to find grip all the time...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 12:11:51 AM by Freezer »

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2015, 12:33:38 AM »
Personally, I'm against it, only for the fact that it will stuff up all my PB's and who knows what apps will pick up that you are driving with modified track grip.

All that will happen for me is that I will find the limit at 110% grip instead of 100%.

Offline Wally

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2015, 07:36:21 AM »
Personally, I'm against it, only for the fact that it will stuff up all my PB's and who knows what apps will pick up that you are driving with modified track grip.

All that will happen for me is that I will find the limit at 110% grip instead of 100%.

It won't stuff anything up, because it's effectively a new track called "xgnnurburgring", a copy of the original track called "nuburgring". Just look at it as another mod track with its own set of PB's etc.

We'll all find the limit at 110%. That's what we do. But it will be a friendlier limit. Like I said before, there will be some corners where you used to not be able to go full throttle from the apex, but at 110% you can. The car will feel more planted, just how it would if you borrowed a P1 for a day and took it onto a track.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

Offline Guybrush Threepwood

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Re: A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2015, 07:59:24 AM »
It would be worth trying then for a bit of fun. . Perhaps not on a Tuesday night season race though...  Although I'm hardly around for those anyway these days!

Offline Gratulin

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A proposal for discussion - more grip
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2015, 08:12:48 AM »
What's the decision for this Tuesday? I'm still practising on the standard grip track. Should I change? I have found it takes a bit to adjust back to the lower grip track so would like to stick to one track version for this week - hard enough at the moment for me to come to "grips" with the racing in these after cars!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 08:15:49 AM by Gratulin »

 

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